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Seth 
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:31 pm  
I don't know what level of impact messaging the RLF Facebook page on mass can have but I've added my contribution. There needs to be a strong supporter reaction to the governing body on this as it's sets a precedent and the games dragged into disrepute.
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:40 pm  
The Ghost of '99 wrote:
No, let's be very clear what happened.

Every sanction has a right to an appeal.

Leeds appealed the Newman two game ban.
They failed and the ban stood.

An additional one match sanction was added for the frivolous appeal. How sad that phrase looks now.
That new sanction had its own appeal process which Leeds followed and also lost.

There was no double dipping of appeals. I can't see this has ever happened before today. So a completely new process, just for St Helens, just in Grand Final week.

It's either corrupt or absurdly incompetent.

This fast developing scandal will inevitably overshadow whatever happens on Saturday night now. It's a massive crisis for the sport and its credibility.

It’s not about new sanctions. You can appeal the result of your appeal, which you did twice and now we’ve done.
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:41 pm  
Seth wrote:
I don't know what level of impact messaging the RLF Facebook page on mass can have but I've added my contribution. There needs to be a strong supporter reaction to the governing body on this as it's sets a precedent and the games dragged into disrepute.


Not sure if this link works but may be worth considering a post or comment going to them if you feel it is worth it.

https://www.rlfans.com/index.php?id=3059
Seth wrote:
I don't know what level of impact messaging the RLF Facebook page on mass can have but I've added my contribution. There needs to be a strong supporter reaction to the governing body on this as it's sets a precedent and the games dragged into disrepute.


Not sure if this link works but may be worth considering a post or comment going to them if you feel it is worth it.

https://www.rlfans.com/index.php?id=3059
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:50 pm  
The Reaper wrote:
It’s not about new sanctions. You can appeal the result of your appeal, which you did twice and now we’ve done.

No you're wrong. The rules specifically state the appeals panel is the final decision. There is - was - no system for second appeals against original sanctions. This apparently new system has just been made up/allowed to exist, just to benefit St Helens, just this week.

It's the most corrupt looking thing we've seen. At least some of the decisions handed down before had a fig leaf of subjectivity about them. At least the framework of the system had some integrity. Now even that's been destroyed. And for what? So the St Helens club can win a tainted title? That's enough to be worth bringing the game to its knees over?
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:54 pm  
The Ghost of '99 wrote:
No you're wrong. The rules specifically state the appeals panel is the final decision. There is - was - no system for second appeals against original sanctions. This apparently new system has just been made up/allowed to exist, just to benefit St Helens, just this week.

It's the most corrupt looking thing we've seen. At least some of the decisions handed down before had a fig leaf of subjectivity about them. At least the framework of the system had some integrity. Now even that's been destroyed.


rubbish. This has always been the rules. Have you got a link or screenshot to these supposed rules that existed 24 hours ago? Obviously they haven’t just made it up lmao you literally appealed an appeal result twice this season already. Farcical levels of delusion here
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:55 pm  
The Reaper wrote:
It’s not about new sanctions. You can appeal the result of your appeal, which you did twice and now we’ve done.


No you cannot appeal the result of an appeal, unless the result of the original appeal is for additional matches to be added to the orignal sanction. I will spoon feed it to you, so you cannot misunderstand.

1. Martin is banned for a single match for an offence
2. That ban is then appealed
3. The appeal is not successful and an additional match is added to the original sanction. That additional match being for the frivolous nature of the appeal (now a two game ban).
4. A further appeal is made, not against the original ban of one match, but rather the additional or second match which was added for the frivolous appeal against the original one game ban.
5. That further appeal isn’t successful, the orignal appeal is deemed frivolous and Martin is banned for two games. One for the offence and one for the frivolous appeal.

1. Knowles is banned for two matches for an offence
2. That ban is then appealed
3. The appeal is not successful, the charge and grading remain static. No additional match is added, the panel must have taken the view it was not frivolous.
4. A further appeal is made, it cannot be against any additional marches or frivolous nature of the appeal because no additional matches were added to the orignal sanction on appeal and it wasn’t deemed a frivolous appeal.
5. The original sanction is over turned and as such there is essentially no ban and Knowles is free to play.

Those two situations are not the same, they have very significant differences. What you are talking about with Knowles is a secondary appeal or an appeal against an appeal decision. I don’t like the original decision, I’ve appealed and lost again so I am going to keep going until I get a different answer.

That just isn’t what the rules are, they never have been. So how come in the week of a grand final, are St Helens allowed to make an appeal that no other club has seemingly been able to make all year?
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:03 pm  
Lprhino wrote:
No you cannot appeal the result of an appeal, unless the result of the original appeal is for additional matches to be added to the orignal sanction. I will spoon feed it to you, so you cannot misunderstand.

1. Martin is banned for a single match for an offence
2. That ban is then appealed
3. The appeal is not successful and an additional match is added to the original sanction. That additional match being for the frivolous nature of the appeal (now a two game ban).
4. A further appeal is made, not against the original ban of one match, but rather the additional or second match which was added for the frivolous appeal against the original one game ban.
5. That further appeal isn’t successful, the orignal appeal is deemed frivolous and Martin is banned for two games. One for the offence and one for the frivolous appeal.

1. Knowles is banned for two matches for an offence
2. That ban is then appealed
3. The appeal is not successful, the charge and grading remain static. No additional match is added, the panel must have taken the view it was not frivolous.
4. A further appeal is made, it cannot be against any additional marches or frivolous nature of the appeal because no additional matches were added to the orignal sanction on appeal and it wasn’t deemed a frivolous appeal.
5. The original sanction is over turned and as such there is essentially no ban and Knowles is free to play.

Those two situations are not the same, they have very significant differences. What you are talking about with Knowles is a secondary appeal or an appeal against an appeal decision. I don’t like the original decision, I’ve appealed and lost again so I am going to keep going until I get a different answer.

That just isn’t what the rules are, they never have been. So how come in the week of a grand final, are St Helens allowed to make an appeal that no other club has seemingly been able to make all year?

Obviously it is what the rules are because we’ve just done it??

Are you genuinely suggesting that they’ve just changed the rules to allow us to do it? Insanity
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:11 pm  
The Reaper wrote:
Insanity


You got that right
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:13 pm  
I hope the RFL statement is pasted on every door at Headingley and the Kirkstall training complex, best piece of Sports Psychology ever.
If Rhinos win on Saturday Saints will probably appeal and get the result reversed.
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Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:14 pm  
Steves wrote:
I hope the RFL statement is pasted on every door at Headingley and the Kirkstall training complex, best piece of Sports Psychology ever.
If Rhinos win on Saturday Saints will probably appeal and get the result reversed.
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