Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Fri May 24, 2019 8:31 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

(which we offloaded Garbutt over, who is now of course injured again). .

He's not, he's playing on Sunday and did not suffer from "chronic injury" problems whilst at Leeds.

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 pm  

When you look at the last couple of years we have had McD who took us from the treble to the qualifiers to the GF and back to the qualifiers when he was sacked. Sinny and Lowe's limped us through the qualifiers. Furner had us in the bottom 3 and now Agar has seen us dumped from the cup by lower league opposition.

What is darn clear is that a coach can only do so much with what he has. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

We need to get the coach appointment right of course but the bigger issue is the playing squad and that is where the continued focus needs to be.

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Fri May 24, 2019 11:00 pm  

To be fair what's any coach going to achieve in less than a week if you're looking at agar to get a performance at Bradford. I'd say the coach appointment is the priority, sign all the players you like but if the ethos, culture and direction isnt right you'll not get the desired effort which in this game you can't hide from. The right coach also needs to drive recruitment, bringing in the players that fit his vision for the team going forward. That's it, I'm applying!

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Sat May 25, 2019 5:37 am  

Seth wrote:

To be fair what's any coach going to achieve in less than a week if you're looking at agar to get a performance at Bradford. I'd say the coach appointment is the priority, sign all the players you like but if the ethos, culture and direction isnt right you'll not get the desired effort which in this game you can't hide from. The right coach also needs to drive recruitment, bringing in the players that fit his vision for the team going forward. That's it, I'm applying!

I would have expected Agar, touted as an experienced SL coach with international experience to have been able to get the players up for a cup game that was very winnable. I think any coach brought in would have expected to win that game and the profuse apologies by the club show what a shambles that game was.

That loss was not down to agar though, it was down to the players. I agree we need to get the right coach in as I said, but the right coach (whatever and whoever that may be) can only get so much from what looks a very average squad. So for me, player recruitment, of which any coach will only have so much of a say in is crucial.

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Sat May 25, 2019 6:32 am  

Without rattling on too much, a few points for me that show it's a much bigger issue than just the wrong coaching appointment;
Any team that loses a world class player and leader usually sees a negative impact as usually you cant just replace like for like via recruitment. Any team that lost the equivalent of a Peacock, Sinfield, Burrow or McGuire would struggle - we've lost all 4 in a short space, that leaves a HUGE hole both in terms of playing ability, but also influence on and off the pitch. Most teams don't have 1 player in the same category as those 4, we've been incredibly blessed to have all four at once.
Those players made everyone else around them look much better - this is no disrespect to players like JJB, Ablett, Delaney, Bailey, Kylie (and many more) who are decent/good.players, but had any of those players been at another club without the influence of our big 4, they'd have had nothing like the same careers. Take those 4 out, and replace with players of a lesser standard, without the same leadership and commitment to the club and you're left with a very average squad, with little heart or fighting spirit.
Now the club have royally cocked up replacing those 4, but to be fair, it was an impossible task. The impact those 4 have on standards on the pitch, at training and off the field cannot be understated.
You can potentially replace them individually on a talent front via recruitment, but losing all 4 in a couple of seasons was always going to create a huge leadership/culture vacuum.
We've tried to get through this transition period hoping that their legacy will just continue into the new crop, but that was never going to work. Whoever the new head coach is needs to create their own spirit and legacy within the club.
What I'm about to say somewhat contradicts my points above, but I'd also say that the amount of ex-players being kept in the club is unhealthy. I totally get you want to reward loyalty, and GH obviously thought having the big 4 still involved in the club (there's only McGuire who isn't, and we've been trying to get him back too) would help keep the culture going, but we need to be more ruthless on that front. For all the big 4 have done for the club, ultimately the club is bigger than any player, the players are simply gatekeepers. Look at Man Utd under Fergie, once a player was past their sell by date, they're moved on for a younger, better option, not just moved upstairs - I believe not having the bottle to do this shows a soft underbelly, the sort of soft underbelly that starts to filter down and results in players believing it's acceptable to eat in the kebab shops of Headingley every night.

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Sat May 25, 2019 9:11 am  

Superted wrote:

Without rattling on too much, a few points for me that show it's a much bigger issue than just the wrong coaching appointment;
Any team that loses a world class player and leader usually sees a negative impact as usually you cant just replace like for like via recruitment. Any team that lost the equivalent of a Peacock, Sinfield, Burrow or McGuire would struggle - we've lost all 4 in a short space, that leaves a HUGE hole both in terms of playing ability, but also influence on and off the pitch. Most teams don't have 1 player in the same category as those 4, we've been incredibly blessed to have all four at once.
Those players made everyone else around them look much better - this is no disrespect to players like JJB, Ablett, Delaney, Bailey, Kylie (and many more) who are decent/good.players, but had any of those players been at another club without the influence of our big 4, they'd have had nothing like the same careers. Take those 4 out, and replace with players of a lesser standard, without the same leadership and commitment to the club and you're left with a very average squad, with little heart or fighting spirit.
Now the club have royally cocked up replacing those 4, but to be fair, it was an impossible task. The impact those 4 have on standards on the pitch, at training and off the field cannot be understated.
You can potentially replace them individually on a talent front via recruitment, but losing all 4 in a couple of seasons was always going to create a huge leadership/culture vacuum.
We've tried to get through this transition period hoping that their legacy will just continue into the new crop, but that was never going to work. Whoever the new head coach is needs to create their own spirit and legacy within the club.
What I'm about to say somewhat contradicts my points above, but I'd also say that the amount of ex-players being kept in the club is unhealthy. I totally get you want to reward loyalty, and GH obviously thought having the big 4 still involved in the club (there's only McGuire who isn't, and we've been trying to get him back too) would help keep the culture going, but we need to be more ruthless on that front. For all the big 4 have done for the club, ultimately the club is bigger than any player, the players are simply gatekeepers. Look at Man Utd under Fergie, once a player was past their sell by date, they're moved on for a younger, better option, not just moved upstairs - I believe not having the bottle to do this shows a soft underbelly, the sort of soft underbelly that starts to filter down and results in players believing it's acceptable to eat in the kebab shops of Headingley every night.

Very fair comments.

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Sat May 25, 2019 1:47 pm  

Superted wrote:

Without rattling on too much, a few points for me that show it's a much bigger issue than just the wrong coaching appointment;
Any team that loses a world class player and leader usually sees a negative impact as usually you cant just replace like for like via recruitment. Any team that lost the equivalent of a Peacock, Sinfield, Burrow or McGuire would struggle - we've lost all 4 in a short space, that leaves a HUGE hole both in terms of playing ability, but also influence on and off the pitch. Most teams don't have 1 player in the same category as those 4, we've been incredibly blessed to have all four at once.
Those players made everyone else around them look much better - this is no disrespect to players like JJB, Ablett, Delaney, Bailey, Kylie (and many more) who are decent/good.players, but had any of those players been at another club without the influence of our big 4, they'd have had nothing like the same careers. Take those 4 out, and replace with players of a lesser standard, without the same leadership and commitment to the club and you're left with a very average squad, with little heart or fighting spirit.
Now the club have royally cocked up replacing those 4, but to be fair, it was an impossible task. The impact those 4 have on standards on the pitch, at training and off the field cannot be understated.
You can potentially replace them individually on a talent front via recruitment, but losing all 4 in a couple of seasons was always going to create a huge leadership/culture vacuum.
We've tried to get through this transition period hoping that their legacy will just continue into the new crop, but that was never going to work. Whoever the new head coach is needs to create their own spirit and legacy within the club.
What I'm about to say somewhat contradicts my points above, but I'd also say that the amount of ex-players being kept in the club is unhealthy. I totally get you want to reward loyalty, and GH obviously thought having the big 4 still involved in the club (there's only McGuire who isn't, and we've been trying to get him back too) would help keep the culture going, but we need to be more ruthless on that front. For all the big 4 have done for the club, ultimately the club is bigger than any player, the players are simply gatekeepers. Look at Man Utd under Fergie, once a player was past their sell by date, they're moved on for a younger, better option, not just moved upstairs - I believe not having the bottle to do this shows a soft underbelly, the sort of soft underbelly that starts to filter down and results in players believing it's acceptable to eat in the kebab shops of Headingley every night.

Very fair comments. Although I would not have put Leuluai in the same bracket as he was far better than "decent/good"

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Sat May 25, 2019 2:42 pm  

Don't get me wrong, Kylie was fantastic for Leeds and I loved him as a player - super consistent, reliable and exactly the type of prop we needed alongside JP, and rightly goes down as one or our greatest ever imports.
However, he was a fringe player in the NRL, and I'd suggest if he'd landed at a lesser club in the UK, he'd have been nowhere near as good as he turned out for us. He'd have been a good 'up n down' prop elsewhere, but with the structure and players around him at Leeds, he became a star. I think he's a perfect example of someone profiting from the golden generation.

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Sat May 25, 2019 3:48 pm  

With no new coach in its not looking good to shake up this team. It's the same old players week after week. We surely have other options

Re: New Head Coach - who's it going to be? : Mon May 27, 2019 8:22 pm  

Watson anyone?