Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:14 pm  

And yet he is still preparing a squad which he mostly inherited and wasn’t performing well enough previously.

He has added MacDonald, McDonnell as first team players and they are good - without having much room at all on the cap.

We have also moved on some dead wood under him which we needed to do.

I want to see him sweep more away this year and really start to stamp his mark on the side / then we can judge better.

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:16 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

I’d also put most of it on the players, they are individually responsible for it. Collectively, and over time, it’s the coach that is responsible as he sets the acceptable standards and has to get players to perform or they are replaced. Smith is far from solely to blame, but he’s not without blame either.

And he got those standard against Wire and Hudds, and I’m sure he won’t be happy that they dropped the standards last night.

Who do you replace them with tho? Donaldson? Academy players? Are they ready to step up? We don’t seem to have much strength in depth

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:27 pm  

leedsbarmyarmy wrote:

And he got those standard against Wire and Hudds, and I’m sure he won’t be happy that they dropped the standards last night.

Who do you replace them with tho? Donaldson? Academy players? Are they ready to step up? We don’t seem to have much strength in depth

The “they’re not ready” line is a bit of a nonsense to me. No player who has debuted has ever been ready, they will make mistakes but will develop faster with first team exposure than without. Perhaps more importantly it’s critical to signal to those who under perform that they don’t have any pressure on them. Can you imagine if a senior player is serially underperforming and is replaced for a game or two by a kid, is there a better way to kick them up the butt and let everyone know that they haven’t been achieving the required levels?

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:44 pm  

christopher wrote:

Apart from Welsby so was Saints, Dodd has gone dramatically downhill he was terrible

I agree but Saints were there for the taking. Smith and O’Connor were very poor.

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:52 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

The “they’re not ready” line is a bit of a nonsense to me. No player who has debuted has ever been ready, they will make mistakes but will develop faster with first team exposure than without. Perhaps more importantly it’s critical to signal to those who under perform that they don’t have any pressure on them. Can you imagine if a senior player is serially underperforming and is replaced for a game or two by a kid, is there a better way to kick them up the butt and let everyone know that they haven’t been achieving the required levels?

Throwing in kids isn’t always the best option tho, especially in the forwards, I know nothing about the academy team and who the next in line would be but chucking in a 17 year old prop just because he’s next in line who’s never played against grown men is irresponsible and can do a lot more harm than good.

I agree players should be dropped if constantly under performing

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:17 pm  

We’re pretty much in agreement there, you need to handle kids carefully, but a week or two in the front line can be worth months in the Academy, as long as they can take it physically.

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:29 pm  

Second game running O`Connor has had a bad day at the office.
I might be wrong but I do think we are flogging him too hard and getting him to play too many minutes.
Maybe the guy needs a break to recharge?
Likewise Smith has played well for the majority of games this season.
But because the halves fail to take control of the game again imo Smith might just feel he has to do the controlling and ends up stifling the play.
Our forwards were nowhere near as intent as Lees was for Saints last night.
We are very powder puff in the collision.

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sat Jul 29, 2023 8:31 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

TlCan you imagine if a senior player is serially underperforming and is replaced for a game or two by a kid, is there a better way to kick them up the butt and let everyone know that they haven’t been achieving the required levels?

Kicking up the butt isn't the Leeds way these days. Can you imagine the sparks that would have flown in a dressing room containing JP, kev, Danny Mags if they'd been playing how we have this year? Or saints? Incoming signings must wonder what they've walked into these days. Still, at least we bring through some well mannered young men.

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:12 am  

Issues for me are:
We lack x factor. Our one exciting option is injured 50% of the time
We are the best resources club in the country. Somehow we can't utilise that in the squad.
Our halfbacks are at best inconsistent. Austin was on fire a couple of weeks ago, and awful this week. Sezer as the organiser is invisible almost every week. Myler is solid but no xfactor. Most teams most impactful player these days is the fullback

As a club we always do our announcements late in the season, and with most of our business done behind closed doors, when times are tough it looks like we don't have a plan. Sometimes it's because we don't, sometimes it just hasn't been announced.

I think it was mentioned earlier, as a club we don't seem desperate for success. That may not be true on the inside, but I agree as an outsider

Re: RD 20 | St Helens (A) : Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:43 am  

Additionally, most accept that our best time as a club recently was based in solid home grown players and complemented with some seasoned pros. That model doesn't happen overnight. It takes time. I believe that Rohan Smith is here for a long-term overhaul. He's needed to do some surgery in the short term to steady the ship and put foundations in place for us to be strong long term. Growing pains for the likes of Newman, O'Connor and Gannon will happen. Players like Walters will always happen. Some clubs will be willing to pay more for some players than others.

The club may be heading in the right direction long term, and that it's just the results are a lagging indicator of that.