Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:41 am  

christopher wrote:

Agreed, I think there's no where near as much jeopardy next season with regards to relegation, personally rather than rushing a signing I would rather let the new coaching set up assess what is needed long term, this squad may surprise a few people when playing with new structures and systems, which is basically what Furner said in the press conference.

New structures and systems would need to be very effective to negate a brittle pack. Not that's what we'll necessarily end up with although my concern is increasing.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:54 am  

Clearwing wrote:

New structures and systems would need to be very effective to negate a brittle pack. Not that's what we'll necessarily end up with although my concern is increasing.

It's difficult when none of us know what's really going on behind the scenes. To some extent, if Ferres and Ward are fit, they need to be the second row. Cameron Smith is a natural loose forward once he puts a bit of size on.
Most of us seem to think the pack is the biggest problem (especially with Lolohea, Hurrell and McClelland coming in). I honestly think Kev gets this, and Furner gets this. But if we have to wait another year to get the right personnel, rather that than costly mistakes which use up precious resources and/or adversely effect the new culture they're trying to instil.

Maybe we need to take our medicine for another season while the youth development comes through - I think we're paying the price now for something not going right there from a few years ago. Handley and Sutcliffe are the only notable ones to come through for some time. Lots of other lads just not up to standard unfortunately.
The crop beginning with Walker, Smith, Newman and Oledzki looks more promising I think.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:11 pm  

We've already had a significant turnover (massive by comparison to recent years under McD actually). But thinking about the next year, I reckon: Parcell (if he's here), Golding (same), Dwyer, Ferres, Ward, JJB, Ablett, Sutcliffe and Handley are all either in their final year of playing, final year of contract, or are in last chance saloon to prove they can do it at Leeds. A few other squad members such as Mullally too.
Whilst I'd expect a few more changes before we kick a ball again in anger in February, next season could be almost as disruptive with player movement as this.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:14 pm  

All of Ferres, JJB, Ablett + Sutcliffe won't, or certainly shouldn't, be at the club after 2019

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:23 pm  

Bang wrote:

All of Ferres, JJB, Ablett + Sutcliffe won't, or certainly shouldn't, be at the club after 2019

Hasn't Ablett signed a two year extension?

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:15 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

It's difficult when none of us know what's really going on behind the scenes. To some extent, if Ferres and Ward are fit, they need to be the second row. Cameron Smith is a natural loose forward once he puts a bit of size on.
Most of us seem to think the pack is the biggest problem (especially with Lolohea, Hurrell and McClelland coming in). I honestly think Kev gets this, and Furner gets this. But if we have to wait another year to get the right personnel, rather that than costly mistakes which use up precious resources and/or adversely effect the new culture they're trying to instil.

Maybe we need to take our medicine for another season while the youth development comes through - I think we're paying the price now for something not going right there from a few years ago. Handley and Sutcliffe are the only notable ones to come through for some time. Lots of other lads just not up to standard unfortunately.
The crop beginning with Walker, Smith, Newman and Oledzki looks more promising I think.

Is the pack really a huge issue though? As of right now we have;
Parcel and Dwyer as hookers. Happy with both and they both have different attributes.
Garbutt, singleton, petru, cuthbo, Crosby, mullally, olejdski as props. Sure another big prop would be great but if Furner can get these guys firing then they can set a platform.

There were holes all over the shop last season and now we should have a decent half back pairing so myler isn't having to do everything and two strike centres we should be better.

Last season was not just poor because of the front row.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:20 pm  

Fallon wrote:

Is the pack really a huge issue though? As of right now we have;
Parcel and Dwyer as hookers. Happy with both and they both have different attributes.
Garbutt, singleton, petru, cuthbo, Crosby, mullally, olejdski as props. Sure another big prop would be great but if Furner can get these guys firing then they can set a platform.

There were holes all over the shop last season and now we should have a decent half back pairing so myler isn't having to do everything and two strike centres we should be better.

Last season was not just poor because of the front row.

Reports seem to be that our only real metre-making prop, Garbutt, is going - and we looked a much worse side when he was off the field this year IMO. For me I'm happy with the back row within reason, IF Ward can stay fit and Ferres produce something and get match fit (two big IFs). Parcell and Dwyer are both primarily running hookers, which works when you're on the front foot and facing disorganised defences. So personally I'd probably go for 2x props if Garbutt goes, both to start ahead of Crosby and Singleton, with Oledzki and Holroyd coming through in the next year or two and as cover for injuries this season (they'll get plenty of game time).

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:23 pm  

Fallon wrote:

Is the pack really a huge issue though? As of right now we have;
Parcel and Dwyer as hookers. Happy with both and they both have different attributes.
Garbutt, singleton, petru, cuthbo, Crosby, mullally, olejdski as props. Sure another big prop would be great but if Furner can get these guys firing then they can set a platform.

There were holes all over the shop last season and now we should have a decent half back pairing so myler isn't having to do everything and two strike centres we should be better.

Last season was not just poor because of the front row.

I do agree it wasn't our only problem: it's just I think we've gone a long way to fixing the other bits already as you say, with 2x strike centres and Tui/McClelland to partner Myler. And, I can't stand having a soft/busted pack in principle.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:01 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

I do agree it wasn't our only problem: it's just I think we've gone a long way to fixing the other bits already as you say, with 2x strike centres and Tui/McClelland to partner Myler. And, I can't stand having a soft/busted pack in principle.

I agree that if Garbutt does go (I really don't get the logic behind that if he does) then the front row suddenly does look weaker which is why ideally we need at least one more big hitting prop, two if Garbutt goes.

But, if we did go with what we have now I think we will go ok given the improvements elsewhere.

That said, I do expect two new forwards to come in. Hopefully they will be a high g improvement on what we have now and we can start thinking about a top 4 6 if not too 4 place.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:30 pm  

Fallon wrote:

I agree that if Garbutt does go (I really don't get the logic behind that if he does) then the front row suddenly does look weaker which is why ideally we need at least one more big hitting prop, two if Garbutt goes.

But, if we did go with what we have now I think we will go ok given the improvements elsewhere.

That said, I do expect two new forwards to come in. Hopefully they will be a high g improvement on what we have now and we can start thinking about a top 4 6 if not too 4 place.

For me you can’t afford to give up on any season if you’re a club like Leeds, despite the rebuild. We do still have some very good players. If we add two really high quality forwards for 2019, with the Furner effect I would expect us to be there or thereabouts.