Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:57 am  

christopher wrote:

Thank exactly what you said, a more true reflection is hes taken a team at the bottom of the table losing to a championship side in the CC to a CC win and a playoff Semi in 2 years.

Yes we should never have got to that position but to blame Agar is madness

he isn't blaming agar but as i saying at the start of the season he's as average as most of the team yet people are happy that we are not flirting with relegation and are playoff cannon fodder
of are squad at moment should only be newman , prior , mik , holroyd gannon poss tetevano johnson broadbent and we don't need an ava/king type we need a unit of walmsley / kassiano size

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:59 am  

KaeruJim wrote:

Lots of spot on analysis on this thread I think.

Is this Saints side that good though? I dunno. I’m not sure they’re even as good as the side Leeds used to beat in the good old days.

I found last night difficult not because I thought we’d win, but because I thought we’d find the focus to at least be competitive.

But again we had silly decisions, poor discipline.. was yelling a bit when T Briscoe’s first-ish tackle resulted in 10 mins in the bin. This is a seasoned professional.

Missed tackle rates from Prior and Zane just not acceptable I’m sorry.

The reality was that we looked, for the second year running, like a knackered old cat that needed to be put to sleep. Next year should be much better, lots of positives going forward but we just have to continue to sign better quality players to support the youth.

If we are bagging Zane and Prior we should throw in Mik too. Missed plenty and Saints front row crunched him. Could also point out that young Newman had a shocker with silly kicks and poor discipline costing us. These are two players we are talking about as potential marquee, but they didn't look like it last night. I still think they are both great talents but as fans we do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to our own. The overseas lads always get it in the neck when we don't perform, but it's a team game and collectively we were not good enough. Good news is that we have plenty of room for improvement and a whole off season to progress, and I'm sure we will.

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:00 am  

Don't understand why Mellor and or King weren't playing last night , if they were fit . T Briscoe cold have gone back to wing , Hurrell as centre or don't bother playing him and we would have had more size . Doubt we'd have won but at least we might have put up a better performance.

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:05 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

If we are bagging Zane and Prior we should throw in Mik too. Missed plenty and Saints front row crunched him. Could also point out that young Newman had a shocker with silly kicks and poor discipline costing us. These are two players we are talking about as potential marquee, but they didn't look like it last night. I still think they are both great talents but as fans we do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to our own. The overseas lads always get it in the neck when we don't perform, but it's a team game and collectively we were not good enough. Good news is that we have plenty of room for improvement and a whole off season to progress, and I'm sure we will.

I know mate but come on, Prior and Zane have 10 years experience on the young lads and are probably paid 2-4x their salaries too. Apples and oranges.

Plus in Mik’s case I don’t think he’s fit. I think they’ve rushed him back early from his injury because they knew we wouldn’t have any hope without him, even at 70%.

Newman’s confidence sometimes strays into over-confidence but he’s nowhere near his peak yet.

Get what you’re saying - there wasn’t any player I was totally happy with last night. Fair to say on the evidence of these 2 games against Saints all our players have things to work on before next season. Can’t stress enough how we’re hampered by 9, 6 and 7 being all over the place. Depressing thing for me was that we were we beaten down the middle too though.

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:09 am  

christopher wrote:

I don’t think anyone is under any illusion that saints are a way better side than us but this is doable, we need to score first, can we play as bad as that again in the second half is my worry because yes we can, we are desperately missing two too class halfbacks IMO, and hopefully that’s fixed for next year and maybe Corey Johnson will kick on

and a full back , winnger , centre , prop , second row , lf

sts have evolved their side better over the years, certainly not as many past their sell by date as we have had for a number of years, much like wigan sed to without breaking the bank

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:17 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

If we are bagging Zane and Prior we should throw in Mik too. Missed plenty and Saints front row crunched him. Could also point out that young Newman had a shocker with silly kicks and poor discipline costing us. These are two players we are talking about as potential marquee, but they didn't look like it last night. I still think they are both great talents but as fans we do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to our own. The overseas lads always get it in the neck when we don't perform, but it's a team game and collectively we were not good enough. Good news is that we have plenty of room for improvement and a whole off season to progress, and I'm sure we will.

Think Prior is just burnt out, Oledski just not fit and we new that was a risk, Tet is just poor and a massive disappointment, Bodene Thompson out played him last night. He turns his back into nearly every tackle then ends up on his back for a slow play the ball, he rushes up to make the big hit and mainly just bounces of, goes low drops of the tackle. Can we have Ben cross, Mark ONeil or David Barhill Back.

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:24 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

If we are bagging Zane and Prior we should throw in Mik too. Missed plenty and Saints front row crunched him. Could also point out that young Newman had a shocker with silly kicks and poor discipline costing us. These are two players we are talking about as potential marquee, but they didn't look like it last night. I still think they are both great talents but as fans we do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to our own. The overseas lads always get it in the neck when we don't perform, but it's a team game and collectively we were not good enough. Good news is that we have plenty of room for improvement and a whole off season to progress, and I'm sure we will.

Newman should never have been in a position where he had to kick, that’s down to saints being dominant and our options at hooker and half back

Mik was clearly not fit I think your being a bit harsh on them

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:24 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

Went last night. Dissapointing result, dissapointing performance, but you have to acknowledge a brilliant and ruthless performance from a Saints team who are right up with great English sides I've watched since I've been following the game. We will be stronger next year and the strength in depth at half will make a huge difference. I expect to see the journeyman who still make our seventeen out competed by new or younger players in 2022. Watching Roby last night painfully reinforced just why we need Corey Johnson to be a success. Fingers crossed that will happen. All things considered it's been a good year and just getting into grounds for games like last nights has been the highlight for me.

People putting a loot of faith into a player who as played hardly any Super League ir open age rugby and has a commitment/attitude problem, people making out he’s Danny Buderous. We have a really good hooker who is arguably our player of the year, made the dream team and had to play out of position. What more fo people want. If Leeming hets a full year at hooker he is likely to be in the world cup squad.

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:28 am  

rollin thunder wrote:

People putting a loot of faith into a player who as played hardly any Super League ir open age rugby and has a commitment/attitude problem, people making out he’s Danny Buderous. We have a really good hooker who is arguably our player of the year, made the dream team and had to play out of position. What more fo people want. If Leeming hets a full year at hooker he is likely to be in the world cup squad.

Agree with that. I’d written us off last night as soon as I saw Dwyer was starting at 9. When you’re attacking everything starts with the pass / scoot / jump from the dummy half. Dwyer’s distribution is simply not good enough.

Re: SL GF E | St Helens (A) : Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:29 am  

christopher wrote:

Ive never said he was blameles in this game just that he’s not to blame for the club’s recent poor seasons flirting with relegation.

He’s done/doing a good job weve just come up short this year.

Fair comment. He's overseen a much needed overhaul I'd agree