Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:48 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Well it was obvious to me that when Sinfield our main game manager, goal kicker and captain retired at the end of 2015 that we needed an experienced quality replacement immediately. With JP retiring at the same time this underlined the need for on field leadership. To me Sutcliffe never looked like he possessed the necessary skills or potential to provide the team with the organiser they needed for the start of the 2016 season. We needed Mags to continue doing what he does well and not expect him to suddenly become an organiser.

So the recruitment is now a season a day a half overdue.

This is pretty much spot on. Again people confuse succession with youngsters in comparison to what we did previously. Yes Sinfield as good as he was as a youngster wouldn't just change the way we are now, but that is the point that wasn't how it worked. But more importantly we are trying to do it with players who are nothing close to the level of ability Sinfield had at that age.

Sinfield came in with experience around him, experience that could play well. Again we are trying with experience not playing so great. We have the succession wrong.

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:54 pm  

Leeds lacked composure and kicking game in the halves most of the way through most of our grand final winning seasons. We were beaten by a Warrington side who were due a win and I think beat us in the middle. We were a man down, one try off them (with a dubious one allowed for them) and still a few players out with injuries or suspensions. If we can improve the kicking game (out of hand and goal kicks) we'll be right up there and we might see Golding taking over from McGuire in which case it'll be a full back we need.

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:24 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

This is pretty much spot on. Again people confuse succession with youngsters in comparison to what we did previously. Yes Sinfield as good as he was as a youngster wouldn't just change the way we are now, but that is the point that wasn't how it worked. But more importantly we are trying to do it with players who are nothing close to the level of ability Sinfield had at that age.

Sinfield came in with experience around him, experience that could play well. Again we are trying with experience not playing so great. We have the succession wrong.

It also took us 7 years from Sinfield making his debut for us to win anything but a solitary challenge cup. Sinfield was a first team regular for 5 years before we won the grand final and LLS in 04.

People portray the process of introducing the golden generation as simple, quick and painless but it was far from it. It was a period of 5 or 6 years with plenty of doubt and disappointment.

Also Sinfield is a ridiculous standard to hold the youngsters to.

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:49 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

It also took us 7 years from Sinfield making his debut for us to win anything but a solitary challenge cup. Sinfield was a first team regular for 5 years before we won the grand final and LLS in 04.

People portray the process of introducing the golden generation as simple, quick and painless but it was far from it. It was a period of 5 or 6 years with plenty of doubt and disappointment.

Also Sinfield is a ridiculous standard to hold the youngsters to.

We went 32 years without winning the title, mainly because they had the wrong policy's full stop. The change in policy to sign the best youngsters, develop them, and introduce them early to grow together, took us from chumps to champions. That couldn't happen over night. But regardless it was the right way, and since copied by others, including the current champions.

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:00 pm  

in early 2015 when sinfield was injured Sutcliffe was outstanding at 6. he deserved a shot. had we signed someone the same people would have moaned about youngsters not given a chance

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:47 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

in early 2015 when sinfield was injured Sutcliffe was outstanding at 6. he deserved a shot. had we signed someone the same people would have moaned about youngsters not given a chance

Not me though tad. Sutcliffe had never shown at any point of either a junior or in the academy at Leeds that he would be a Super League stand off. Don't even agree on 2015. I thought he showed glimpses of ability and he has that in his locker, it it was just a matter of circumstances that he was playing stand off at the time,

Still doesn't change the point though, that Leeds planned over a few years to get success from a changed policy, players like Sutcliffe would never have a got close with that generation of youngsters we had around the turn of the century,

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:14 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

in early 2015 when sinfield was injured Sutcliffe was outstanding at 6. he deserved a shot. had we signed someone the same people would have moaned about youngsters not given a chance

Would agree with this.There really was no excuse imo though for not addressing the HB issue before this season though.It is a clear area of weakness for us, we badly lack a playmaker/ game manager.

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:22 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

We went 32 years without winning the title, mainly because they had the wrong policy's full stop. The change in policy to sign the best youngsters, develop them, and introduce them early to grow together, took us from chumps to champions. That couldn't happen over night. But regardless it was the right way, and since copied by others, including the current champions.

This seems a good argument against your own view point. We do have good youngsters, we are developing them, we are introducing them. Just how we were in say 2000-2002 when we were introducing Calderwood, Bailey, McGuire, Diskin, Mathers Burrow Walker, JJB and Sinfield. It took a couple of years to introduce them and we were still a couple of years away from a trophy.

McGuire, Walker and Burrow were 22 in 2004, JJB, Calderwood and Diskin 23, Mathers 21. Sinfield 24

Sutcliffe is 22 and has played in a challenge cup final and for a treble winning side, Lilley is 20, Golding 20, Handley 21, Smith 18,

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:24 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Would agree with this.There really was no excuse imo though for not addressing the HB issue before this season though.It is a clear area of weakness for us, we badly lack a playmaker/ game manager.

Who could we get? Walsh? Williams? Kelly? Im not sold.

Re: RD 8 | Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos : Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:47 pm  

HucknallLoiner wrote:

Leeds lacked composure and kicking game in the halves most of the way through most of our grand final winning seasons. We were beaten by a Warrington side who were due a win and I think beat us in the middle. We were a man down, one try off them (with a dubious one allowed for them) and still a few players out with injuries or suspensions. If we can improve the kicking game (out of hand and goal kicks) we'll be right up there and we might see Golding taking over from McGuire in which case it'll be a full back we need.

Spot on.