Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:06 am  

I really like what RS is doing. Young, hungry players coming in, competition for places, bigger squad, bigger bodies.

I think if you look at McDermott or Agar, they loved coaching a small group of players. McDermott did what he needed to to get the most out of the golden gen and peak at the right time. Some players and ex-pros rated Agar, but for both those, it was far too short term a vision for winning game by game or for that season - that shows in poor recruitment and retention decisions, and the mixed bag of a squad RS inherited.

You can see even from the full club training sessions, RS has a much much bigger vision for the whole club that starts from the top down. He always says to the media after games that it's only 1 game at a time, but you can see he has much greater vision than McD or Agar.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Fri Dec 23, 2022 7:39 am  

LeedsLurch wrote:

I do believe RS did a great job last year but if you think back to this time last year and we were expecting Agar to deliver a top 3 spot with the squad he had available. Awful start under Agar and turned around to what we were expecting. I'm excited to see what Rohan can deliver but let's not get carried away with calling him gold or diamond just yet

I don't think you can compare optimism with Smith to optimism with Agar. Seems like Smith has a clear plan not just of how the team will play, but the balance of his whole squad. Agar's plan was more about filling the team with back rowers. It isn't just making the GF that gives me optimism, it's the way Smith got players like Sutcliffe playing better in a short space of time. Saints have been the bench mark and are a quality team, but we know that injuries can blow things wide open, and I expect us to be right there at the end of season because players won't be flogged. Also, we saw last year that you can overcome a bad start, which is why having players recovering from injury or starting training later isn't really a concern

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:07 am  

D4mo78 wrote:

LeedsLurch wrote:

I do believe RS did a great job last year but if you think back to this time last year and we were expecting Agar to deliver a top 3 spot with the squad he had available. Awful start under Agar and turned around to what we were expecting. I'm excited to see what Rohan can deliver but let's not get carried away with calling him gold or diamond just yet

I don't think you can compare optimism with Smith to optimism with Agar. Seems like Smith has a clear plan not just of how the team will play, but the balance of his whole squad. Agar's plan was more about filling the team with back rowers. It isn't just making the GF that gives me optimism, it's the way Smith got players like Sutcliffe playing better in a short space of time. Saints have been the bench mark and are a quality team, but we know that injuries can blow things wide open, and I expect us to be right there at the end of season because players won't be flogged. Also, we saw last year that you can overcome a bad start, which is why having players recovering from injury or starting training later isn't really a concern

I think that`s a fair point as I would easily sacrifice the League Leaders Trophy for a GF win.
Whilst it`s nice to sit at the top of the tree each week by winning most of our games.
The aim has always been to be crowned Champions and if it means doing that from 5th then so be it.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:37 pm  

exiledrhino wrote:

I really like what RS is doing. Young, hungry players coming in, competition for places, bigger squad, bigger bodies.

I think if you look at McDermott or Agar, they loved coaching a small group of players. McDermott did what he needed to to get the most out of the golden gen and peak at the right time. Some players and ex-pros rated Agar, but for both those, it was far too short term a vision for winning game by game or for that season - that shows in poor recruitment and retention decisions, and the mixed bag of a squad RS inherited.

You can see even from the full club training sessions, RS has a much much bigger vision for the whole club that starts from the top down. He always says to the media after games that it's only 1 game at a time, but you can see he has much greater vision than McD or Agar.

Agree with Agar, but way too soon to compare RS to B Mac. B Mac was an amazing coach and is ye most successful in the clubs history….doesn’t get anywhere near as much praise as he deserves imho…

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:00 pm  

Tell you what, there's not many coaches who'd manage to turn around a side like Rohan did, only to rip up the squad list at the earliest opportunity.

I'll wait and see whether that turns out to be a wise decision. Though without doubt it was a brave one.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:01 pm  

Shabino - I agree Mac doesn't get enough credit, but that's a lot to do with the end of his term. He left us in an absolute shambles, and given the length of his tenure that's all down to him. I remember a decade ago we were debating whether he would be able to see through the Golden Generation and rebuild and the reality was he did an appalling job of that.

I'd compare 2017 to 2022 to highlight problems with McDermott. Smith has seen a near miss and still gone ahead and torn up the squad because he's focused on what needs to be done for the future. In 2017 we won (a really low quality Grand Final) and McDermott just plodded along into 2018 and we saw an almost exact repeat of 2016. He really didn't seem to have a plan at all.

Smith has won nothing yet and he might leave without a trophy. But win or not I reckon the whole club will be in a better state when he leaves than when he arrived.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:08 pm  

Once were Loiners wrote:

Shabino - I agree Mac doesn't get enough credit, but that's a lot to do with the end of his term. He left us in an absolute shambles, and given the length of his tenure that's all down to him. I remember a decade ago we were debating whether he would be able to see through the Golden Generation and rebuild and the reality was he did an appalling job of that.

I'd compare 2017 to 2022 to highlight problems with McDermott. Smith has seen a near miss and still gone ahead and torn up the squad because he's focused on what needs to be done for the future. In 2017 we won (a really low quality Grand Final) and McDermott just plodded along into 2018 and we saw an almost exact repeat of 2016. He really didn't seem to have a plan at all.

Smith has won nothing yet and he might leave without a trophy. But win or not I reckon the whole club will be in a better state when he leaves than when he arrived.

To be fair he has some horrendous luck to contend with two.
Big Keith Galloway was a big name signing that hardly played, just didn’t work out with Myler as McGuire replacement, the two brightest players in Walker and Ward hardly playing….
We basically went out to world club challenge worth no props, and it didn’t get much better from there….

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:57 pm  

Walker played 22 games in 2018 and Ward 17. They both missed a number of games, but its not true that they hardly played that year.

Galloway was signed in 2016 and retired before the 2018 season. We signed Peteru for 2018. Neither of them were that good, and we'd gone from the Peacock-Leuluai combination in 2015 to a rotation of Cuthbertson, Peteru, Ormondroyd, Mullally, Singleton and a very young Oledzki. That was a group big on numbers but very low on quality. Myler was signed as our main playmaker with Joel Moon stand off. But he'd never shown any sign of being a dominant playmaker, and still hasn't.

I agree entirely that BM doesn't get enough credit for what he achieved, but three of his last four seasons were amongst the worst in the club's history, and he left the club in a mess. Clearly not all down to him, but he has to be judged on his whole record.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:31 am  

Once were Loiners wrote:

Walker played 22 games in 2018 and Ward 17. They both missed a number of games, but its not true that they hardly played that year.

Galloway was signed in 2016 and retired before the 2018 season. We signed Peteru for 2018. Neither of them were that good, and we'd gone from the Peacock-Leuluai combination in 2015 to a rotation of Cuthbertson, Peteru, Ormondroyd, Mullally, Singleton and a very young Oledzki. That was a group big on numbers but very low on quality. Myler was signed as our main playmaker with Joel Moon stand off. But he'd never shown any sign of being a dominant playmaker, and still hasn't.

I agree entirely that BM doesn't get enough credit for what he achieved, but three of his last four seasons were amongst the worst in the club's history, and he left the club in a mess. Clearly not all down to him, but he has to be judged on his whole record.

Yeah that’s fair. Perhaps I remember the incredible times and bit rose tinted. But anyway we’ve got a top
Class coach in now, and well balanced squad.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:28 am  

BM managed a top class squad full of egos brilliantly.

but building a squad, as proved at fev, was beyond him