Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 12:30 pm  

Father Ted wrote:

Regarding the McGuire touch down that was disallowed, refs do seem to let play go on after an infringment when there's the VR to go back to.

I think the bigger problem from my point of view was he had already called play-on, Silverwood saw the incident and made a decision on it. It wasn’t a case of him allowing the play to see where it finished (at the time of the offence it wasn’t a clear opportunity) more him seeing an incident, making a decision on it, then because it eventually resulted in a try getting a 2nd opinion on it. The issue is the discrepancy between Mcguire getting tackled a yard out, and Leeds scoring the next play-the-ball and the referees decision stands, and Mcguire scoring with a good bit of play and the referee giving up on his decision. I think there need to be a process whereby either we stick with the referee’s decision that he made when he called play-on originally, or that possible obstruction is checked by the VR even if he doesn’t score.

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 1:29 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

I think the bigger problem from my point of view was he had already called play-on, Silverwood saw the incident and made a decision on it. It wasn’t a case of him allowing the play to see where it finished (at the time of the offence it wasn’t a clear opportunity) more him seeing an incident, making a decision on it, then because it eventually resulted in a try getting a 2nd opinion on it. The issue is the discrepancy between Mcguire getting tackled a yard out, and Leeds scoring the next play-the-ball and the referees decision stands, and Mcguire scoring with a good bit of play and the referee giving up on his decision. I think there need to be a process whereby either we stick with the referee’s decision that he made when he called play-on originally, or that possible obstruction is checked by the VR even if he doesn’t score.

If you do the latter there will be video checks for every potential penalty situation and the game would go on a lot longer than it does. The rules state checks on tries should be made if there is a doubt about the legality of the try so the VR was the correct call. Having said that I don't believe he should have waved play on because the VR interpretation suggests it is a basic that if you run behind a player that is in the defensive line he is deemed to be obstructing, that should be easy to police.

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 2:41 pm  

If we are taking a standpoint that every infringement needs to be punished then we need to follow through on that. I think it would be crazy for us to have a situation where a decision the referee has made is checked simply because a try was scored but that same infringement would be ignored if the player was tackled and a try scored on the next play. It should be an all or nothing situation, either the VR looks at everything and advises accordingly or he doesn’t.

As I say, Silverwood made already made a decision, there should be no need to revisit that after the fact just because a try was scored, if that infringement happened, it happened whether there was a try or not.

Personally I would remove all interpretive judgements from the VR rather than leaving some with the VR and some with the Ref (why would we check an obstruction but not interference at the PTB?) and leave the VR to judge on more the absolute issues like grounding, onside/offside, if a player was in the field of play, foul play etc. Those decisions are absolute and the VR is a great decision making tool for that. Obstruction, like forward passes, are quite a bit more in the eye of the beholder and there will always be some debate over whether they were right or wrong the on-field-ref is in a good position to make those judgements. There is also the matter of consistency, Silverwood could, even on second viewing in the VR’s room see that as a try, he could let incidents like that go all over the park. Ian Smith may see them as a penalty. That leaves us with a position where the on field ref sees it as try even with the benefit of numerous camera angles and slow-mo etc but another referee interprets it differently and that only becomes apparent when one team scores.

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 2:58 pm  

gary numan wrote:

You are steve ganson and i claim my five pounds

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

The only thing that moved the ball forward from Tomkins to Richards was the speed he was heading towards the Leeds line before he released the pass. Tomkins passed it backwards and stayed ahead of the ball as Richards took it. It's perfectly OK for the ball to travel forwards in relation to the ground in that situation, in fact unless the ball is passed markedly backwards (which it isn't required to do) you would expect it to fly in the direction it did.

Not even a close call for me.

Your explanation of why it was a forward pass can also go here, if you wish.

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 3:28 pm  

tvoc wrote: Everyone is entitled to an opinion. The only thing that moved the ball forward from Tomkins to Richards was the speed he was heading towards the Leeds line before he released the pass. Tomkins passed it backwards and stayed ahead of the ball as Richards took it. It's perfectly OK for the ball to travel forwards in relation to the ground in that situation, in fact unless the ball is passed markedly backwards (which it isn't required to do) you would expect it to fly in the direction it did. Not even a close call for me. Your explanation of why it was a forward pass can also go here, if you wish. Sorry, you are Stevo and i claim my £5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUWRzjLic_M look about 3.45

tvoc wrote: Everyone is entitled to an opinion. The only thing that moved the ball forward from Tomkins to Richards was the speed he was heading towards the Leeds line before he released the pass. Tomkins passed it backwards and stayed ahead of the ball as Richards took it. It's perfectly OK for the ball to travel forwards in relation to the ground in that situation, in fact unless the ball is passed markedly backwards (which it isn't required to do) you would expect it to fly in the direction it did. Not even a close call for me. Your explanation of why it was a forward pass can also go here, if you wish. Sorry, you are Stevo and i claim my £5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUWRzjLic_M look about 3.45

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 4:02 pm  

The NRL system could be worth a look at.

The on field officials confer as we do in SL, if they decide to go to the Video Referee they give their opinion on what they saw with a clear signal to show Try or No Try.

That's far from final but it shows what their on-field view is. If their live view is a Try then the video referee has to find a clear reason to overule.

Relating that to Sunday - assuming Silverwood was minded to award the try - as appeared the case with his clearly audible 'play-on' call then his initial Try decision may have been upheld by the VR.

Watched the St George V Penrith game at the weekend and despite having two video referees and an initial call of try from the onfield officials they still bizarrely (IMO) came up with an overule - so I guess as long as humans are involved it's probably impossible to eliminate all human error - whatever system you have.

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 4:09 pm  

gary numan wrote: Sorry, you are Stevo and i claim my £5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUWRzjLic_M look about 3.45 Yes I have seen the try before but thanks for that as it highlights two things very well 1 - Why the pass was ruled OK as per my explanation and 2 - Some people still can't grasp the basics

gary numan wrote: Sorry, you are Stevo and i claim my £5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUWRzjLic_M look about 3.45 Yes I have seen the try before but thanks for that as it highlights two things very well 1 - Why the pass was ruled OK as per my explanation and 2 - Some people still can't grasp the basics

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 4:23 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Yes I have seen the try before but thanks for that as it highlights two things very well

1 - Why the pass was ruled OK as per my explanation

and

2 - Some people still can't grasp the basics

I know well about the velocity in relation to the ground etc.. but it is quite clear that the ball leaves tomkins hand in a forward motion not just because the player is moving in a forward direction.

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 5:00 pm  

tvoc wrote:

Yes I have seen the try before but thanks for that as it highlights two things very well

1 - Why the pass was ruled OK as per my explanation

and

2 - Some people still can't grasp the basics

Where is John Senior when you need him?

Re: Wigan v Leeds | Sunday 26th May | Etihad Stadium | 7:30p : Tue May 28, 2013 5:04 pm  

tvoc wrote:

The NRL system could be worth a look at.

The on field officials confer as we do in SL, if they decide to go to the Video Referee they give their opinion on what they saw with a clear signal to show Try or No Try.

That's far from final but it shows what their on-field view is. If their live view is a Try then the video referee has to find a clear reason to overule.

Relating that to Sunday - assuming Silverwood was minded to award the try - as appeared the case with his clearly audible 'play-on' call then his initial Try decision may have been upheld by the VR.

Watched the St George V Penrith game at the weekend and despite having two video referees and an initial call of try from the onfield officials they still bizarrely (IMO) came up with an overule - so I guess as long as humans are involved it's probably impossible to eliminate all human error - whatever system you have.

Agree, it would have been interesting to see what Silverwoods call would have been. He obviously thought that there MAY have been a problem as asked the video ref to check possible obstruction.
I like the Aussie ruling as it does give a bit of direction to the video ref.