Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:50 am  

Agar arguably left us in a much worse mess than Smith, and Smith probably over-achieved in his first games in charge.

I actually thought Arthur's impact was positive, but it was worrying how Leeds fell away given the personnel available. While Arthur talks a good game and I appreciate he is coming in without much knowledge of the current playing group, I worry he is asking them to play a game they are not suited to in terms of physicality and fitness. We need a coach who will get the team to play to its strengths, not some generic philosophy about how the game should be played that appeals to RL purists (including me by the way, the Saints away play-off defeat in 2007 is one of my favourite games).

I'm not writing him off - that would be idiocy. At the same time it would be nice to see some signs on the field that we are turning a corner, as well as signs off the pitch that there is a plan to put an end to the speculation and uncertainty for next season. I was hoping for more than a bit more effort and a couple of dropped high kicks from one of our former players (Broadbent).

No doubt many will be quick to place the blame on the players Rohan recruited, and there is some logic in that. But if these players want to play for Leeds and are not bad eggs disrupting the side or not putting effort in behind the scenes, I would hope that the new coaching staff can get them to play to their strengths in the games ahead.

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:05 am  

Think you're both right: sacking Smith has NOT seen us improve performances or results on the whole, 4 games in. In fact I would wager we might have done better in these games had he remained in charge.

Also Blease had no choice but to sack him because he'd lost the crowd so badly.

It will of course take time for any changes to be seen: there were some green shoots against KR but the bottom line is that this side isn't good enough, we are going to finish exactly where we deserve. Many have been saying "we're a better side than our performances/position" - well what evidence do you have for that?

I still think another three high quality signings in the right positions, plus a full pre-season for the likes of Newman, Holroyd, Simpson, Lumb, Gannon etc. to step up a gear hopefully... we should look better. The side needs to play differently, and again we need a full pre-season to put that into practice. We aren't a million miles away in all fairness but we also need to be realistic about some tough choices which need to be made if we're going to compete.

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:19 am  

Based on Saturdays performance there is more chance that Liz Truss will be the next US president.

And on the subject whoever told Miller he was a full back?

One 40/20 is forgivable to a player of Lewis’s quality but twice is down right stupidity.

Also what has happened to Newman? is his sole responsibility arguing with away fans because he does nowt else

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:54 am  

No it's not seen the uplift in performances a) because it left chev walker in charge for 3 of them who by his own admission didn't change anything and b) Brad Arthur has been here 5 minutes! It seems that the way smith had us playing has affected their conditioning to as they can't go more than 25 minutes at the level required and looked spent. He should persist though with demanding they play that way because it's what champion teams are built on, smith though he could be a smart booty and bypass this. As buderus said to the players the other week 'the game will always be win and lost on the gain line'. The aim should be to get in the 6 as they need that motivation but reality is if we fall short I want to see the team able to show some sustained dominance on that gain line and see what the attack looks like off the back of that. If I remember correctly our first set of the game no backs carried the ball, our forwards have been treated like a protected species with the backs flogged, this needs to change

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 12:00 pm  

Exeter Rhino wrote:

I'm not 100% sure about Blease. Keeping a club like Salford afloat and competitive is one thing, and while he comes across as being professional, ultimately there are no guarantees.

Looking at the evidence in front of us, his two big decisions - removing Smith and appointing Arthur on a short-term contract, do not seem to have meaningfully impacted the results of the first team. Added to that there is no news on recruitment, and a lot of uncertainty surrounding the fortunes of the first team into 2025. I'm not saying he won't turn things around eventually, but assuming he will is too much like blind faith to me. We need something tangible to put faith in.

The club evidently believed that this squad is capable of doing something in the play-offs this season. Blease seemed to buy into this, but the last few games don't really bear this out, and I'm not convinced that the new style of play is going to be enough for us to make the 6.

You have to give Blease and Arthur time here... there is no way you can judge anything yet.

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 12:02 pm  

Seth wrote:

No it's not seen the uplift in performances a) because it left chev walker in charge for 3 of them who by his own admission didn't change anything and b) Brad Arthur has been here 5 minutes! It seems that the way smith had us playing has affected their conditioning to as they can't go more than 25 minutes at the level required and looked spent. He should persist though with demanding they play that way because it's what champion teams are built on, smith though he could be a smart booty and bypass this. As buderus said to the players the other week 'the game will always be win and lost on the gain line'. The aim should be to get in the 6 as they need that motivation but reality is if we fall short I want to see the team able to show some sustained dominance on that gain line and see what the attack looks like off the back of that. If I remember correctly our first set of the game no backs carried the ball, our forwards have been treated like a protected species with the backs flogged, this needs to change

Correct

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 12:24 pm  

Seth wrote:

No it's not seen the uplift in performances a) because it left chev walker in charge for 3 of them who by his own admission didn't change anything and b) Brad Arthur has been here 5 minutes! It seems that the way smith had us playing has affected their conditioning to as they can't go more than 25 minutes at the level required and looked spent. He should persist though with demanding they play that way because it's what champion teams are built on, smith though he could be a smart booty and bypass this. As buderus said to the players the other week 'the game will always be win and lost on the gain line'. The aim should be to get in the 6 as they need that motivation but reality is if we fall short I want to see the team able to show some sustained dominance on that gain line and see what the attack looks like off the back of that. If I remember correctly our first set of the game no backs carried the ball, our forwards have been treated like a protected species with the backs flogged, this needs to change

Or it's possible you are wrong and had RS remained in charge it would have given is the best chance of the 6 this year, given how far in we are. Then again, I don't believe Harry Potter could conjure a SL title from our team right now so it's a moot point really.

I also clocked (and liked) our forwards taking the yardage carries a little more against KR, and the backs that joined in seemed to do it at more effective times. Which is partly why we were looking better because we were threatening their 50/40m line at the end of sets more. Frawley is way more accurate at that range than from our own half.

Overall I'm confident BA is a more effective coach than RS, but either way our squad needs surgery again it seems.

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:06 pm  

You're right Jim the evidence base for that outcome has been really strong over the last 18 months...

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 1:46 pm  

In terms of the squad, I would say that saints were night and day difference under Cunningham to Holbrook with mostly the same squad. I think the coaching appointment is more key than bringing in a wave on new signings, although a couple of props would be ace!

Whilst the salary cap makes it difficult to bring in whoever we want, it also means the gap between top and bottom probably isn't as vast as we'd all think on the face of it.

Re: Play off chances : Mon Jul 22, 2024 2:39 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

Think you're both right: sacking Smith has NOT seen us improve performances or results on the whole, 4 games in. In fact I would wager we might have done better in these games had he remained in charge.

Also Blease had no choice but to sack him because he'd lost the crowd so badly.

It will of course take time for any changes to be seen: there were some green shoots against KR but the bottom line is that this side isn't good enough, we are going to finish exactly where we deserve. Many have been saying "we're a better side than our performances/position" - well what evidence do you have for that?

I still think another three high quality signings in the right positions, plus a full pre-season for the likes of Newman, Holroyd, Simpson, Lumb, Gannon etc. to step up a gear hopefully... we should look better. The side needs to play differently, and again we need a full pre-season to put that into practice. We aren't a million miles away in all fairness but we also need to be realistic about some tough choices which need to be made if we're going to compete.

It is to be hoped Arthur has gone before pre-season - half this squad wouldn't survive a pre-season under Arthur - simply not fit enough.