Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

You cant possibly believe that. Some of the bottom teams from 2000s would beat the top 2 teams currently? Wowser.

Definitely, without a shadow of doubt. London just beat them last week, and they wouldn’t have picked up a single point in that period. You really are kidding yourself with this argument Marty.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:59 am  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

Last night was a game between the 10th and 7th placed teams. Do people really believe the standard was really worse than between the 10th and 7th placed teams of previous years?

It was also the 2018 Champions v 2017 Champions.
These were the teams in 2007 grand final.
The competition has certainly got weaker.

Paul Wellens Fullback Brent Webb
Ade Gardner Winger Scott Donald
Matthew Gidley Centre Clinton Toopi
Willie Talau Centre Keith Senior
Francis Meli Winger Lee Smith
Leon Pryce Stand Off Danny McGuire
Sean Long Scrum Half Rob Burrow
Nick Fozzard Prop Kylie Leuluai
Keiron Cunningham Hooker Matt Diskin
Jason Cayless Prop Jamie Peacock
Lee Gilmour 2nd Row Jamie Jones-Buchanan
Chris Flannery 2nd Row Gareth Ellis
Jon Wilkin Loose Forward Kevin Sinfield (c)
James Roby Interchange Ali Lauitiiti
Mike Bennett Interchange Ryan Bailey
James Graham Interchange Ian Kirke
Maurie Fa'asavalu Interchange. Carl Ablett

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:14 am  

People have selective memories when it comes to remembering the game of the past. I think what's happened is teams have adapted and innovated their defenses at a faster rate than teams have managed to innovate and adapt their attacking structures. The last time we saw a major attacking innovation was when Maguire introduced the 2 attacking lines into Wigan's play almost a decade ago. Leeds and Cas have been the outliers in that time, but we've not seen any new ideas from coaches for a while.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:39 am  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

It was also the 2018 Champions v 2017 Champions.
These were the teams in 2007 grand final.
The competition has certainly got weaker.

Paul Wellens Fullback Brent Webb
Ade Gardner Winger Scott Donald
Matthew Gidley Centre Clinton Toopi
Willie Talau Centre Keith Senior
Francis Meli Winger Lee Smith
Leon Pryce Stand Off Danny McGuire
Sean Long Scrum Half Rob Burrow
Nick Fozzard Prop Kylie Leuluai
Keiron Cunningham Hooker Matt Diskin
Jason Cayless Prop Jamie Peacock
Lee Gilmour 2nd Row Jamie Jones-Buchanan
Chris Flannery 2nd Row Gareth Ellis
Jon Wilkin Loose Forward Kevin Sinfield (c)
James Roby Interchange Ali Lauitiiti
Mike Bennett Interchange Ryan Bailey
James Graham Interchange Ian Kirke
Maurie Fa'asavalu Interchange. Carl Ablett

No sure why you bringing those teams up mate. Pretty sure those teams didnt finish 10th or 7th.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:49 am  

As I said above yesterday we had the 2018 Champions v 2017 Champions

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:55 am  

Him wrote:

I’m not that disappointed to be honest, I’m more frustrated than disappointed.

I think we are a much better team than 4/5 weeks ago when everyone knew we were soft as.

We at least appear relatively difficult to break down now. That is significant progress.

I’ve moved from thinking we need to change most of the team to seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

I agree with the consensus on Lolohea, Myler, Sutcliffe and Ferres. I’ve often defended Myler however tonight was indefensible. You can’t kick like that that often in a game. 1 bad kick yes. Not that many. And it totally relieved the pressure we’d worked hard to apply to Wigan.

Sutcliffe offered nothing. I don’t think we were any better really with Smith on but we certainly weren’t any worse.

Lolohea offered nothing attacking wise from full back and was weak again defensively. Out of position several times and as I’ve said previously he wimped out of taking a hit in the first half.

Ferres, his stats probably look ok but Christ he has the turning circle of the Titanic. For a second rower he shouldn’t have been so easily bypassed for Wigan’s try in the 2nd half and it was frankly embarrassing to see him rounded by a prop that I reckon I could catch.

I’m also going to criticise Dwyer a bit here. Im going to preface the criticism by saying his enthusiasm and effort is obviously great, however...it’s not always directed well enough. A couple of times he went flying out of the line trying to solve an issue that wasn’t his to solve and left a massive gap, that in the 2nd half Wigan ran through to score.
Also his schizophrenic acting half play causes us issues in attack.

For me, if we can change 3/4 players I think we’ll be a much better team and look much more potent in attack. The forwards have pulled their socks up and are doing their bit. It’s the spine that let us down today in my opinion.

So for the next game I’d go with:
1. Walker - Golding if Walker not fit
2. Briscoe
3. Newman
4. Hurrell
5. Handley
6. McLelland
7. Myler - we have no better option
8. Singleton - much better today imo!
9. Parcell
10. Cuthbertson
11. Watkins
12. Donaldson - Ward when back fit
13. Merrin

14. Dwyer
15. Ava
16. Oledzki
17. Ferres - Donaldson when Ward fit

I don’t see how McLelland could be any worse than Sutcliffe or Lolohea and it would at least be experience for him.
I’d keep Dwyer in the team but use him almost like a Burrow type impact hooker for 15/20 mins per game

I fully agree with your astute observations. However with regard to your team selections I would suggest dropping Ferres, Myler, Sutcliffe now. If Walker is fit I would play him at 6 with McLelland at 7 and tell them they are in for the rest of the season and to concentrate on last play attacks.. Otherwise play their natural attacking game. So Golding should now get a run at fullback and Smith on the bench

When Watkins leaves in a couple of weeks time I would play Smith in the back row with perhaps Sutcliffe on the bench. Hopefully Ward and the pensioners will soon be fit to allow some rotation.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:09 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Definitely, without a shadow of doubt. London just beat them last week, and they wouldn’t have picked up a single point in that period. You really are kidding yourself with this argument Marty.

London beat us by the golden point.. I don't suppose the fact that we had six first reamers rested made any difference then???

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:25 pm  

RIGSBY wrote:

London beat us by the golden point.. I don't suppose the fact that we had six first reamers rested made any difference then???

I think you missed the point.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:01 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

I fully agree with your astute observations. However with regard to your team selections I would suggest dropping Ferres, Myler, Sutcliffe now. If Walker is fit I would play him at 6 with McLelland at 7 and tell them they are in for the rest of the season and to concentrate on last play attacks.. Otherwise play their natural attacking game. So Golding should now get a run at fullback and Smith on the bench

When Watkins leaves in a couple of weeks time I would play Smith in the back row with perhaps Sutcliffe on the bench. Hopefully Ward and the pensioners will soon be fit to allow some rotation.

Im fully behind most of the changes but i wouldnt shift Walker he's still learning his FB role to change that now would be a wasted gamble.
Unfortunately we are stuck with one of Myler Lolohea Sutcliffe in one of the HB roles for now to partner Mclellend.
Also Goldings firmly on the outer so i cant see that changing either.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:45 pm  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

Im fully behind most of the changes but i wouldnt shift Walker he's still learning his FB role to change that now would be a wasted gamble.
Unfortunately we are stuck with one of Myler Lolohea Sutcliffe in one of the HB roles for now to partner Mclellend.
Also Goldings firmly on the outer so i cant see that changing either.

We are in serious trouble and the most obvious weakness to correct is the lack of decent halfbacks. The combinations of Myler and Sutcliffe simply do not work and the biggest gamble would be to keep playing them in these positions. Myler needs a break from the pressure and Sutcliffe is at best a backrower on the bench to cover several positions.

I accept your point about Walker changing roles. But he is young, talented and adaptable and IMO has the skills to turn some of the opportunities close to the line into tries on last plays. Playing at 6 he would get his hands on the ball more times and not have to do the physical work of clearing our own lines.

McLelland has a better kicking and passing game than Myler or Sutcliffe and could do the organising leaving Walker to do what he does best ie run at the opposition and his footwork would produce wins where at present we are producing losses. Both are not scared to tackle and would do better than Myler & Sutty

The team has shown a much better attitude and work rate which has improved our defense dramatically. Now we need to address the woeful lack of ideas in attack and I would out my faith in Walker and McLelland, along with Newman, to make it happen. We simply have to start winning games and the time has come to try something different. The youngsters should be told to go out and play their natural game and they will not be dropped if they make a few errors along the way. They cannot do worse that those we have tried at half back.

Perhaps Muzzi should be given a run in the back row too.