Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:52 am  

Ronzy wrote:

Fact - Burrow has proved himself to be a superb impact player and an invaluable asset to Leeds. You wrote him off at the beginning of last year and yet, he contributed much to the success we enjoyed.

Fact - We have produced one decent half back in the last ten years (who didn't stay at the club).

Fact - Gaskell is nothing like Sutcliffe, other than they are both over six feet tall.

I don't mind debating matters and I'm well aware that much of what we discuss is based solely on opinion. You are the one who constantly casts your opinions as facts.

Again, your personal opinion. There is not one fact there at all. You need to look up what a fact is.

I wrote Burrow off as a scrumhalf, and that is factual. He isn't a scrum half. Correct as usual. Nobody, even his biggest critics have argued about impact value.

We have produced decent half backs. They have just drifted away due to not having the opportunities. The fact you name one, is because it is the only one you know about. Your lack of knowing others is not a problem for anyone else.

Sutcliffe is exactly like Gaskell in everyway he plays, and again Gaskell was not deemed good enough for the one role. But is an excellent utility in various roles. Not however, good enough to hold down the one role in a top team.

Dont't try and quote facts that have no substance. You want an opinion, that is your perogative and perfecetly fine, but if you can't handle others then don't visit message boards.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:13 am  

Gotcha wrote:

Again, your personal opinion. There is not one fact there at all. You need to look up what a fact is.

I wrote Burrow off as a scrumhalf, and that is factual. He isn't a scrum half. Correct as usual. Nobody, even his biggest critics have argued about impact value.

We have produced decent half backs. They have just drifted away due to not having the opportunities. The fact you name one, is because it is the only one you know about. Your lack of knowing others is not a problem for anyone else.

Sutcliffe is exactly like Gaskell in everyway he plays, and again Gaskell was not deemed good enough for the one role. But is an excellent utility in various roles. Not however, good enough to hold down the one role in a top team.

Dont't try and quote facts that have no substance. You want an opinion, that is your perogative and perfecetly fine, but if you can't handle others then don't visit message boards.

Your statement on Burrow last year was "he offers nothing to this team". Not so factual there old cheese.

If we produced decent half backs, you name them then? I've told you we produced one (Luke Gale) and he has proven his quality (another fact).

I never saw anything of Gaskell to suggest that he could barge his way through a gap. With over four years on Sutcliffe, he still only now of comparable weight. He certainly was not that size in 2011.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:50 am  

Ronzy wrote:

Your statement on Burrow last year was "he offers nothing to this team". Not so factual there old cheese.

At scrum half. That is differnet to your context. I also said at the weekend that I wanted to buy an expensive watch, I didn't however say it a couple of years ago.

Ronzy wrote:

If we produced decent half backs, you name them then? I've told you we produced one (Luke Gale) and he has proven his quality (another fact).

Like I said, the fact that you are unable to name them proves my point that you only know about something when it hits the headlines, hence the Gale one. I bet when he was in his Bradford days, which incidentally I always argued with Bradford fans he was quality when they kept saying he wasn't, you wouldn't have taken him at all. Gareth Moore is still he best potential halfback I have seen at Leeds since McGuire started, but he wasn't given anything close to the opportunites Sutcliffe is getting now, and as a result slipped away down a none full time path. Others go the same way, as their focus goes. That doesn't mean they couldn't have made it, it means they were not give the opportunity and therefore gave it up.

Ronzy wrote:

I never saw anything of Gaskell to suggest that he could barge his way through a gap. With over four years on Sutcliffe, he still only now of comparable weight. He certainly was not that size in 2011.

Yet the sky team were declarying him man of steel in his first full season, with his try assists and try's far exceeding Sutcliffe last season. I suggest maybe you just didn't realise because you didn't see the potential in him that the sky team did. Just like others do not see the potential in Sutcliffe that you believe now. Like I said, personal opinion.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:13 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

They had Danny Orr at the time, and had signed Trent Barrett to follow. We have a salary cap, you can't sit with players hoping when you already have better. Isn't this the exact argument you and others have used as to why we have not given players chances at half back previously from our junior teams? that is exactly what Brown found himself in at Wigan. I am sure they regretted it many times after, but regardless he was miles ahead of Sutcliffe at that age.

Sorry, sticking my nose in on this one, regarding brown, he got sent on loan to huddersfield as part of the 'cap management' involved for signing stuart fielden, obviously though going back to your discussion wigan did deem him expendable.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:45 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

I remember Paul McShane having six better games than I have seen Sutcliffe have. Nick Scruton certainly had many better games than six. Ben Jones Bishop again better games in more than six. I mean the list could go on, Simon Worrall had six games where he looked very good, where is he now?

What those six games showed with Sutcliffe, and it was mentioned at the time, is that whilst the going was good and everyone around him playing well he could stand out. When the going got tougher and some of his team mates faltered he was brought down to a level. Something that top players don't allow to happen.

Sutcliffe has had much more than 6 good games as you well know, hes been playing 1st team since 2013 and has deputised very well for Sinfield or Mcguire when they were out. In 2013 without him our season could have gone to pot, and he had some good games in 2014 such as the narrow loss to Saints after Wembeley when we had only 12 men for most of the match and he was our best player.

Most 6s only perform when their team is on top. There is maybe only 3 players in the world atm that can win a game when the rest of their team is beaten.
Everyone is raving about Sandow atm but as we will see, when the going gets tough the Sandow goes missing

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:05 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

At scrum half. That is differnet to your context. I also said at the weekend that I wanted to buy an expensive watch, I didn't however say it a couple of years ago.


Like I said, the fact that you are unable to name them proves my point that you only know about something when it hits the headlines, hence the Gale one. I bet when he was in his Bradford days, which incidentally I always argued with Bradford fans he was quality when they kept saying he wasn't, you wouldn't have taken him at all. Gareth Moore is still he best potential halfback I have seen at Leeds since McGuire started, but he wasn't given anything close to the opportunites Sutcliffe is getting now, and as a result slipped away down a none full time path. Others go the same way, as their focus goes. That doesn't mean they couldn't have made it, it means they were not give the opportunity and therefore gave it up.

Yet the sky team were declarying him man of steel in his first full season, with his try assists and try's far exceeding Sutcliffe last season. I suggest maybe you just didn't realise because you didn't see the potential in him that the sky team did. Just like others do not see the potential in Sutcliffe that you believe now. Like I said, personal opinion.

Do me a favour before you post again.
Go to Wigan's board and look a the comments about George Williams from about a year a go after they got knocked out of the CC by Hull KR, many were claiming he wasn't good enough or wast ready and that they should sign someone.
Then look at recent comments where they claim they have no creativity with him out of the team.

Sutcliffe was further ahead in his development than Williams before his injury.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:41 pm  

leedsnsouths wrote:

Do me a favour before you post again.
Go to Wigan's board and look a the comments about George Williams from about a year a go after they got knocked out of the CC by Hull KR, many were claiming he wasn't good enough or wast ready and that they should sign someone.
Then look at recent comments where they claim they have no creativity with him out of the team.

Sutcliffe was further ahead in his development than Williams before his injury.

To be honest mate, what Wigan and their fans put has no interest to me. What I do know is that Williams is absolutely class, and was a million miles ahead of Sutcliffe this time last year, regardless of what you ended with.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:48 pm  

Gotcha, Williams may well be ahead of Sutcliffe right now but there is no way you can claim he was a million miles ahead this time last year.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:07 pm  

Biff Tannen wrote:

Gotcha, Williams may well be ahead of Sutcliffe right now but there is no way you can claim he was a million miles ahead this time last year.

I just did mate. I was way ahead.

Re: Enough is enough : Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:23 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

I just did mate. I was way ahead.

well you was wrong, imo of course