Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:02 pm  

Exeter Rhino wrote:

Not sure Frawley is the best comparison with French. But even Miller and Croft aren't delivering the same kind of performances as Field and French.

Not too long ago we beat Wigan, and Harry Newman battered Field and French into submission. Harry hasn't come near hitting those heights since, either defensively or with ball in hand. Genuinely not sure who takes responsibility for that - I guess it is in Blease's remit now.

French and Field didn’t deliver those performances for Wigan in their first season either to be fair.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:41 pm  

christopher wrote:

French and Field didn’t deliver those performances for Wigan in their first season either to be fair.

Field was injured for most of his first season at Wigan.
Was player of the year in his second.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:25 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

I'm not trying to be controversial, but it will take more than using the words "winning" and "identity" for me to buy into Blease. Wanting to win, and being able to win, are entirely different things. It's not like the current staff we have are trying to lose.

Salford have managed to punch well above their weight, IB clearly was a big part of that. We desperately needed a fresh perspective and we have that now. We also needed some effective reach into NRL. What I'm looking for is better judgement on individual players, and getting the overall mix right.

Blease needs to decide on props/back rower combinations that will give us a better platform, on the 7 shirt, and obviously on whether RS is the right man or not. Said it before but although I'm not totally given up on this season (85% given up) - I don't think there are any excuses for Leeds not challening for all trophies in 2025. The thing Blease and others need to get right is: it isn't good enough to catch Wigan or Saints or Warrington, we have to assemble a BETTER team and coaching set up than they have. To do that, we are going to have to sign BETTER overseas players. Look at the impact French has had on Wigan for example - huge. We have Frawley.

I have a slightly different take, Jim. Whilst acknowledging the importance of recruitment from the NRL (Blease has an excellent track record) I think the biggest challenge is getting the coach, be it Smith or A.N Other, to get the best out of the home-grown talent. The likes of Smith, Oledzki, Holroyd and Newman have now seen a few coaches come and go. How many of them can look themselves in the mirror and say they have progressed in line with expectations? To be as good (or better) than the big boys, this has to change. We can't expect every overseas signing to miraculously change things. Wigan signed Cade Cust and when he wasn't performing they gave Harry Smith his chance and never looked back. We signed Frawley, who has been poor to average, but the coaching staff and quite a few posters on here don't think young Sinny is up to it yet. We have to change that or be reduced to playing perennial catch-up.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:38 pm  

Simmo71 wrote:

Field was injured for most of his first season at Wigan.
Was player of the year in his second.

So he didn’t deliver in his first year

French took a couple of years and a position switch to be the ayer he is now.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:07 am  

Agree with Arthur as well on player development. We bemoan poor development of juniors into first team players (and rightly so), but the number who reach the first team and stagnate is also a poor reflection on the club.

Newman is the latest example of a could be great/could be blah player, and based on recent history you wouldn't bet a lot on him being the best he can be at Leeds. There was a bit of an outcry from Leeds fans when Mik wasn't picked for England, but in my opinion he's some way behind the very best, and is one of our pack that regularly get crushed by bigger teams, and just isn't the pack leader we hoped he would be. Cameron Smith looks good every now and then and does a lot of work, but often looks horribly slow and his decision-making as to how and when to put himself into the line as a playmaker is generally terrible.

One thing I don't understand is how we always seem to have so many small forwards coming through, whereas other clubs seem to find good big players. This goes back to Bluey's days as coach, when he spotted this issue straight away with our junior/reserve props. No idea how this keeps happening, but we need to develop far more big forwards ourselves IMO.

Another mistake we seem to keep making is betting everything on one player in a position, and persevering too long when its obvious they're not what we hoped. Liam Sutcliffe failed as a prospective stand off, then a centre etc. He was around for years, and it would probably have been better for both parties if he'd left way earlier.

I don't know where the problem is, but if a club the size of Leeds can't get it right then the game as a whole will suffer.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:11 am  

Liam Sutcliffe is the biggest scape goat on this forum, it's amazing his name is still mentioned. He was a decent SL player. Not amazing, but good value on the cap, and it's not like he's been replaced by world beaters since.

We also have to acknowledge we've had really bad luck over player development. Stevie Ward and Jack Walker should have been our stars of the academy of that generation. Stevie in my opinion wouldn't be far off being England captain by now had his career not been blighted by injuries. Let's hope Gannon (another future star) isn't going in the same direction.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:30 am  

We could have done with Sutcliffe the last few years for our centres rather than Martin or Roberts.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:03 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

I have a slightly different take, Jim. Whilst acknowledging the importance of recruitment from the NRL (Blease has an excellent track record) I think the biggest challenge is getting the coach, be it Smith or A.N Other, to get the best out of the home-grown talent. The likes of Smith, Oledzki, Holroyd and Newman have now seen a few coaches come and go. How many of them can look themselves in the mirror and say they have progressed in line with expectations? To be as good (or better) than the big boys, this has to change. We can't expect every overseas signing to miraculously change things. Wigan signed Cade Cust and when he wasn't performing they gave Harry Smith his chance and never looked back. We signed Frawley, who has been poor to average, but the coaching staff and quite a few posters on here don't think young Sinny is up to it yet. We have to change that or be reduced to playing perennial catch-up.

My thoughts as well. Hopefully Blease is a good appointment but the sporting director role is to provide a structure that facilitates success and development at all levels within the club. To take a football analogy if a pep guardiola team plays his style of football at first team level all development teams within the club are coached and play a similar fashion which helps young players move upwards with a greatest opportunity to progress to that next level. Elitë level signings also fit the system and it is clear how they improve the team and compliment the club developed players. Thats my point regarding culture and identity its about a clear vision and framework to operate in at all levels. Penrith and Melbourne are good examples of this in the NRL. To be fair to RS he came in as manager but had no input to all the other coaching appointments below him. Moving forward the sporting director with significant input from the first team coach should be creating a joined up rugby pathway through all levels of the club.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:49 am  

christopher wrote:

So he didn’t deliver in his first year

French took a couple of years and a position switch to be the ayer he is now.

Come on, do you think Frawley is going to become a MoS candidate even if he changes a position? My point is not comparing directly because they're different players/positions, my point is there is an obvious gulf in class.

Re: Rhino’s Sporting Director Announcement : Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:04 pm  

The question of youth development is again very arguable isn't it?

Maybe Newman just isn't that good. He looks great athletically, but maybe he isn't as good as his swag implies? Is it the club's fault (so many on here just love blaming the club), or has the player just got limits? He is still learning and improving I'm sure.

Holroyd can't get and stay fit. Is that the club's fault? I don't know.

We have had a few false dawns with players like Walker, Broadbent, Edwards and some others. That happens. Apart from Dupree, I can't think of any other academy lads who have gone elsewhere and torn up trees. Most (like Lilley) become solid Champ players or lower-level (Cas/Hull) SL players.

I see a clutch of players coming through the system now who I believe have better potential; better size than we've had for a while plus ability. I am expecting 4-5 new additions to first grade over the next few years. So in that regard I'd say the problem is partly fixed.

It needs to be appreciated that your reap what you sow with youth - we are still paying the price now for a system which wasn't working well 5 years ago. It could be the best academy in the universe right now but we wouldn't see the real benefits in first grade for a few years.

I also happen to think that we're all expecting a whole golden generation to come through at once, and if you look at the actual facts that didn't even happen with the golden generation. The hardcore of young players took several years to emerge, and they were supplemented with signings like Senior, McDermott, Fleary, Harris, Ellis, Briscoe etc over time. Plus some real high quality OS signings of course.

Clearly in today's world it's harder to sign players like Lauitiiti or Webb, we all get that. Nevertheless other competitor clubs have out-signed us consistently for a long time and I hope Blease stops that. I'm sure he'll make a professional, thorough review and make some changes to the whole setup, and let's all hope it's effective. I'll be interested to see whether he thinks it's a tweaking job, or root-and-branch like some of you think.