Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:11 pm  

Him wrote:

I’m not that disappointed to be honest, I’m more frustrated than disappointed.

I think we are a much better team than 4/5 weeks ago when everyone knew we were soft as.

We at least appear relatively difficult to break down now. That is significant progress.

I’ve moved from thinking we need to change most of the team to seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

I agree with the consensus on Lolohea, Myler, Sutcliffe and Ferres. I’ve often defended Myler however tonight was indefensible. You can’t kick like that that often in a game. 1 bad kick yes. Not that many. And it totally relieved the pressure we’d worked hard to apply to Wigan.

Sutcliffe offered nothing. I don’t think we were any better really with Smith on but we certainly weren’t any worse.

Lolohea offered nothing attacking wise from full back and was weak again defensively. Out of position several times and as I’ve said previously he wimped out of taking a hit in the first half.

Ferres, his stats probably look ok but Christ he has the turning circle of the Titanic. For a second rower he shouldn’t have been so easily bypassed for Wigan’s try in the 2nd half and it was frankly embarrassing to see him rounded by a prop that I reckon I could catch.

I’m also going to criticise Dwyer a bit here. Im going to preface the criticism by saying his enthusiasm and effort is obviously great, however...it’s not always directed well enough. A couple of times he went flying out of the line trying to solve an issue that wasn’t his to solve and left a massive gap, that in the 2nd half Wigan ran through to score.
Also his schizophrenic acting half play causes us issues in attack.

For me, if we can change 3/4 players I think we’ll be a much better team and look much more potent in attack. The forwards have pulled their socks up and are doing their bit. It’s the spine that let us down today in my opinion.

So for the next game I’d go with:
1. Walker - Golding if Walker not fit
2. Briscoe
3. Newman
4. Hurrell
5. Handley
6. McLelland
7. Myler - we have no better option
8. Singleton - much better today imo!
9. Parcell
10. Cuthbertson
11. Watkins
12. Donaldson - Ward when back fit
13. Merrin

14. Dwyer
15. Ava
16. Oledzki
17. Ferres - Donaldson when Ward fit

I don’t see how McLelland could be any worse than Sutcliffe or Lolohea and it would at least be experience for him.
I’d keep Dwyer in the team but use him almost like a Burrow type impact hooker for 15/20 mins per game

Ive got a feeling I’ll agree with you after watching it back, I would prefer us to have a better defence than attack I think 6weeks ago Wigan would have romped away with that one we at least look to have some pride in our defence again

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:11 pm  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

Ferres and Donaldson haven't been offered new deals yet, and hopefully that remains the case.

I Would offer Donaldson a deal. One of our better players again tonight.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:18 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

We’re not great but we’re comfortably better then our 2005 and 2006 sides. I’d say the 2005 side that got beat 70-0 at your place the week before our 75-0 defeat at Saints would take some beating to that award.

Two pretty poor sides tonight for sure but an enjoyable game to watch all the same.

Fair points about 2005.
I find virtually nothing to enjoy in the game these days. Apart from a moment of class with the gildart try it’s like watching paint dry. I think the game is in real trouble from an entertainment perspective. Saints are exciting to watch and a few players like Connor and Austin but I’m becoming a grumpy old b’std and find much of it really boring. Think i’m Not alone as crowds seem well down

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:25 pm  

christopher wrote:

Relegation talk is still too early IMO, where has it been said Ferres has been offered a deal?

I thought we had offered him a 1 year deal but may be wrong, let me know when it’s time to talk relegation because I reckon we will be 6/21 fairly soon and home to Hull KR

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:27 pm  

Him wrote:

I’m not that disappointed to be honest, I’m more frustrated than disappointed.

I think we are a much better team than 4/5 weeks ago when everyone knew we were soft as.

We at least appear relatively difficult to break down now. That is significant progress.

I’ve moved from thinking we need to change most of the team to seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

I agree with the consensus on Lolohea, Myler, Sutcliffe and Ferres. I’ve often defended Myler however tonight was indefensible. You can’t kick like that that often in a game. 1 bad kick yes. Not that many. And it totally relieved the pressure we’d worked hard to apply to Wigan.

Sutcliffe offered nothing. I don’t think we were any better really with Smith on but we certainly weren’t any worse.

Lolohea offered nothing attacking wise from full back and was weak again defensively. Out of position several times and as I’ve said previously he wimped out of taking a hit in the first half.

Ferres, his stats probably look ok but Christ he has the turning circle of the Titanic. For a second rower he shouldn’t have been so easily bypassed for Wigan’s try in the 2nd half and it was frankly embarrassing to see him rounded by a prop that I reckon I could catch.

I’m also going to criticise Dwyer a bit here. Im going to preface the criticism by saying his enthusiasm and effort is obviously great, however...it’s not always directed well enough. A couple of times he went flying out of the line trying to solve an issue that wasn’t his to solve and left a massive gap, that in the 2nd half Wigan ran through to score.
Also his schizophrenic acting half play causes us issues in attack.

For me, if we can change 3/4 players I think we’ll be a much better team and look much more potent in attack. The forwards have pulled their socks up and are doing their bit. It’s the spine that let us down today in my opinion.

So for the next game I’d go with:
1. Walker - Golding if Walker not fit
2. Briscoe
3. Newman
4. Hurrell
5. Handley
6. McLelland
7. Myler - we have no better option
8. Singleton - much better today imo!
9. Parcell
10. Cuthbertson
11. Watkins
12. Donaldson - Ward when back fit
13. Merrin

14. Dwyer
15. Ava
16. Oledzki
17. Ferres - Donaldson when Ward fit

I don’t see how McLelland could be any worse than Sutcliffe or Lolohea and it would at least be experience for him.
I’d keep Dwyer in the team but use him almost like a Burrow type impact hooker for 15/20 mins per game

Very well balanced post that and agree

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:58 pm  

Mark Laurie wrote:

Fair points about 2005.
I find virtually nothing to enjoy in the game these days. Apart from a moment of class with the gildart try it’s like watching paint dry. I think the game is in real trouble from an entertainment perspective. Saints are exciting to watch and a few players like Connor and Austin but I’m becoming a grumpy old b’std and find much of it really boring. Think i’m Not alone as crowds seem well down

I think some people too often equate quality with good to watch and so we occasionally get the silly posts of so and so from 20 years ago would walk over so and so of today. When of course they really wouldn’t.

However I’d definitely agree the game isn’t as good to watch, and I’ve said this for a few years so it’s not just because Leeds aren’t at the top anymore.

We seem to get 1 or 2 teams a season who can play rugby that we would call entertaining. I don’t think that’s enough to sustain the sport. I think we actively need to find ways to make the game more open and expansive. I was watching some old games from 2002-2005 the other day, some of the defence on show was awful by today’s standards however the game seemed faster and more open and was much more entertaining.
I don’t know how we can take the wrestle out of the game but that’s a part of it I’m sure.
I’d also bring in 2 very simple rule changes that I think could open the game up more almost immediately.

1 - change the rule where an attacker goes into touch from a scrum to the defence to a play the ball where the attacker goes in touch, a bit like NFL.

We are struggling to find space on the pitch yet we have this rule in place that effectively shrinks the pitch by 5m on either side. How many times would wingers try and take on the outside if there wasn’t the danger of losing possession? It would also open up possibilities to attack from your own half.

2 - change the rule for when defences can move up after a play the ball to when the acting half back picks the ball up.

Something else I’ve noticed from older games that appeared more entertaining was the amount of time and space the halves or first receivers had on the ball was massively more than now. So let’s give attackers more time and space, it might only be a small change but it should help at least.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:08 pm  

HIM- sorry but if you don't think the Leeds Saints Bradford teams wouldn't walk over the teams of today you are delusional. Of course we factor in that those sides would be better conditioned with the times but in general they were just by far better RL players. This current Leeds team would take an absolute hiding at the hands of all three.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:15 pm  

Mark Laurie wrote:

I thought we had offered him a 1 year deal but may be wrong, let me know when it’s time to talk relegation because I reckon we will be 6/21 fairly soon and home to Hull KR

His recent interview in the yep sounds as if he knows hes not getting another deal, and with the recent signing of the hudds back rower it looks like hes a gonner.

The time to talk seriously about relegation is with less than 4 games to go IMO.

The fixture list is fairly kind to us hull kr play London twice before then and our points difference is in our favour

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:33 pm  

Watkins going when Ward is due back keeps some quality in the second row for us.
Echo some other posters here; I’d put McLelland in at half now. The lad has lots to learn but he defends quite well for his age and he is a better field kicker than anybody in first grade IMO.
Myler is done for me. Agar and KS both played in the halves and they can’t be blind to how abject he is on last plays. I know he’s playing under pressure but this is Leeds, you have to still perform.
Some of the distribution from dummy half and half was terrible tonight - not SL standard.
Probably a case of two steps forward and one back; we are certainly defending better than we were and that’s a positive. There are just too many players still not delivering time after time and I hope KS has his broom handy still.

Re: SL RD 18 | Wigan Warriors (H) : Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:57 pm  

If ever there was a game that showed how desperately we need a 6, 7 and 9 it was tonight.

Thought Merrin was spectacular as usual, proper forward, Big Ava ran well and Cuthbo did ok off the bench. The pack have a right to be disappointed tonight with our poor our halves was. Really poor.

Having said that there was too many errors and too many penalties to win a winnable game.

The priorities have be a new number 9 and 2 halves. You cant bring a new half in and expect him to be able to do the job with Dwyer at 9 it's impossible for any half. I'm sorry.

Is there really any quality halves available at this time of year anyway? I suspect not really.

Really frustrated with that tonight. The effort and endeavour was there for all to see and the game was there to be taken and we didnt get the job done. Just not good enough this team right now.