Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:58 am  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

Gotcha i personally dont believe at a club like Leeds a leader can be just brought in and signed. Even JP, who was one of the greatest leaders ever, took a year to 18 months to have any influence and to settle into the ethos of the club. Leaders need to develop at Leeds as Sinfield did.

One of the problems with the academy was for years we had a core group who was in their prime and was successful so it was impossible for certain kids to come thru, Luke Gale being a prime example.

Now its easy to say we should have phased people out but in 2015 they had the best year ever so phasing them out earlier than that would clearly have been a mistake would it not?

Whether people agree or not GHs philophsy is that if the people do right by him he will do the right thing for them and part of that is the players have earned the right to decide when to retire. That to me is a credit to the club.

Now we had an amazing group of kids come thru in early 2000s that we will never see the likes of again and part of the reason is that at the team we was competing with only Wigan and Wire to sign the best kids in the country. Nowadays other teams are trying to seriously push the junior development.

In a years time Tommy Oldroyd will have many offers to sign pro forms. In the old days he would have had 2 or 3. We both know how good that kid could be but its a different era to 15 years ago.

As i highlighted elsewhere GH's loyalty only goes so far & he has shown he can be ruthless with both players & Coaches in the past even following success.
The fact the only response to last year is to bring in Parcell & Morley with 2 2nd division projects is a major concern & should be for everyone.
As for phasing out Achurch was never good enough & injury prone whereas Delaney is carrying a body shot to pieces albeit with a heart of a Lion.
GH has made tough calls & this time by not doing so has proved costly how long it continues is down to him & how soon he pulls the trigger will depend how long it lasts.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:35 pm  

We can't have it both ways here.

Do we want to bring youth through or not? The club are giving opportunities to the fb, sutty and Lilley. How can you give those opportunities if we rush out and buy players everytime we hit a bump in the road? Also, if we don't give youth a chance how can we hope to attract top quality youth players in the future, would you want to sign for a club with a habit of buying second rate players rather than developing youth?

Yes the team is struggling and something needs to be done but is rushing out to prise a second rate Aussie away the answer? Let's be honest, we can say we should go out and BUY a player but it's not that simple. The club have to be happy to let them go, they have to want to come, we have to stump up the right package. This isn't football manager.

My bigger concern is why the heck the club has not appeared to learn from last year's errors regarding how we play. We are the living example of insanity right now.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:41 pm  

Fallon wrote:

We can't have it both ways here.

Do we want to bring youth through or not? The club are giving opportunities to the fb, sutty and Lilley. How can you give those opportunities if we rush out and buy players everytime we hit a bump in the road? Also, if we don't give youth a chance how can we hope to attract top quality youth players in the future, would you want to sign for a club with a habit of buying second rate players rather than developing youth?

Yes the team is struggling and something needs to be done but is rushing out to prise a second rate Aussie away the answer? Let's be honest, we can say we should go out and BUY a player but it's not that simple. The club have to be happy to let them go, they have to want to come, we have to stump up the right package. This isn't football manager.

My bigger concern is why the heck the club has not appeared to learn from last year's errors regarding how we play. We are the living example of insanity right now.

Fallon i totally agree with you apart from the club not learning from we play. The season hasnt started yet so nobody knows how we will play. Nobody saw the offload game and style of play in 2015 til it happened. Fingers crossed we open up a bit more this yr.

Spot on regarding the youngsters coming thru. Cant have it both ways and market is dead these days.

Lets not forget also Zak salary has to be spared on our cap until he leaves permanently.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:46 pm  

ft

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

Fallon i totally agree with you apart from the club not learning from we play. The season hasnt started yet so nobody knows how we will play. Nobody saw the offload game and style of play in 2015 til it happened. Fingers crossed we open up a bit more this yr.

Spot on regarding the youngsters coming thru. Cant have it both ways and market is dead these days.

Lets not forget also Zak salary has to be spared on our cap until he leaves permanently.

That's a fair comment Marty, I'm going off the boxing day shambles. I hope that isn't how they are going to play but it was consistent with last year's dross so the early signs are not encouraging.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:41 pm  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

Fallon i totally agree with you apart from the club not learning from we play. The season hasnt started yet so nobody knows how we will play. Nobody saw the offload game and style of play in 2015 til it happened. Fingers crossed we open up a bit more this yr.

Spot on regarding the youngsters coming thru. Cant have it both ways and market is dead these days.

Lets not forget also Zak salary has to be spared on our cap until he leaves permanently.

I may be wrong but my understanding is hardaker's full 2017 salary will sit on castleford's salary cap and Leeds can use that space this year. Assuming McGuire retires Leeds could recruit now and cover hardaker's 2018 salary (if he returned which looks unlikely at moment).

Happy new year to all, hope we see a bit more decent football.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:56 pm  

It's going to be interesting over the next few years to see if the CEO manages decline effectively whilst still ensuring the club remain competitive in terms of challenging for silverware.

Up until the retirements of 2015, he's been able to manage decline effectively by only having to tinker around the edges of the squad as the youth products of the Doug Laughton and Dean Bell era provided over a decade of trophy-winning value.

If 2016 is any indication, it ain't a good start.

On the positive side, every other SL club is also having to manage decline.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:52 pm  

Mark Laurie wrote:

I may be wrong but my understanding is hardaker's full 2017 salary will sit on castleford's salary cap and Leeds can use that space this year. Assuming McGuire retires Leeds could recruit now and cover hardaker's 2018 salary (if he returned which looks unlikely at moment).

Happy new year to all, hope we see a bit more decent football.

The full cap will be in Cas' cap space but what if he turns up tomorrow drunk and punches Powell (not sure why i think that could happen) Cas would then sack him and he would return to Leeds. Hence the reason Leeds need to keep space available as he still has a contract with Leeds.

Thats my understanding anyway.

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:46 pm  

<oops, posted on wrong thread>

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:02 pm  

I think there was a transition plan in place. In the space of 12 months the props of peacock, Bailey, leuluai and kireke was replaced with cuthbertson, Galloway, garbut and singleton.

I also think that the half back roles were earmarked for Sutcliffe and maybe Lilley. However Sutcliffe getting a major injury the thought out slightly. As does some of the signings not being up to the level we'd hoped. I think they're was a plan in place, it may not have worked, or been foolproof, but I think there was a plan

Re: 2017 | Gary Hetherington Thread : Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:37 pm  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

Fallon i totally agree with you apart from the club not learning from we play. The season hasnt started yet so nobody knows how we will play. Nobody saw the offload game and style of play in 2015 til it happened. Fingers crossed we open up a bit more this yr.

Spot on regarding the youngsters coming thru. Cant have it both ways and market is dead these days.

Lets not forget also Zak salary has to be spared on our cap until he leaves permanently.

No-one wants it both ways this whole "Golden era" was built on sound quality recruitment alongside quality youngsters developed & brought through.
Nobody is saying sign Thurston or Cronk a "Dunneman" type signing would suffice or a Connolly/Furner those types don't command huge money but can make a huge difference to a transitional period.
Sinfield himself admits the influence those older heads had on his & the teams progress.
If you read the points been made everything that's been said we require has been done on countless ocassions so it isn't groundbreaking or new.