Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:54 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

Smokey - the problem is that with the best will in the world, it's hard to see SL itself ever being as strong as the NRL. There simply isn't the money or the available talent to spread across the league.

We develop the likes of Tomkins once a decade at best. In the NRL they have at least one amazing new talent come through every year, and plenty of likely contenders in almost every position. That means that when the likes of Lockyer retire, there is someone else to take over. At the moment if Tomkins is out we're down to fullbacks who would struggle to get an NRL gig.

That's why in the short-term, a few players going to the NRL can only be a good thing - they get to play against the likes of Slater every week.

We're not going to see some mass exodus of players to the NRL. The reason is that apart from forwards, where first Morley and now Ellis have proven themselves, I suspect there is severe doubt as to the quality of SL players. A number of NRL clubs would probably be interested in Ryan Hall for example, but he's not so obviously a star that they'd throw big money at him. He'd most likely have to take a big pay cut to get an NRL contract, as even Ellis did a few years ago.

That is true, that is what i have said, We struggle with the strength in depth part of it. We lose Tomkins we are scraping the barrell, but that doesnt mean Tomkins still wouldnt be one of the best fullbacks in the NRL. But if we shift on Tomkins, the next young FB instead of increasing the quality of SL is, at best, simply replacing what we have lost when we lose Tomkins.

Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:35 am  

Has it been confirmed anywhere that the intention is for Peacock to still be Leeds premier prop for the next 2 years, or could it simply be the case that he is getting the infamous "Leeds loyalty" contract?

We have no idea what the terms of the contract are, they could well include a second year in a purely coaching capacity only, so to speculate about what he will be like in 2 years is a little futile.

Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:48 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

I havent contradicted it. You simply havent seemed to grasp what I said. I didnt say the best players in SL are the best in the world, i said the top echelons of SL are comparable to to the top echelons of the NRL. They are, they may not be the best in the world but only one player at any time is. There is no point beating ourselves up about the fact that the best players in SL arent always the best in the world. I didnt even compare them to the worst, i compared James Roby to an SoO and Australia legend, a player who has just been nominated by a coaching legend to play at what is according to the self-flagellators the highest level in RL. James Roby is a better player than him, I would say he is a better player than any NZ hooker and a better player than any Australian hooker bar Smith. Is it something we should be crying about that James Roby is only the second best hooker in the world? Not really.
Should we be upset that we arent producing a Lockyer right now? no, because Lockyer is a once in a generation player, Australia cant produce another Lockyer, Cherry-Evans wont match Lockyer and Australia havent produced a Lockyer for 20 years. The same as the Kiwis havent produced a Marshall since Marshall.
And bringing through those players in to a league whose standard is falling because the best players in SL are shifted on to the NRL will only make the improvement needed in SL more difficult and take longer.

The original point was how can sending our best players to the NRL benefit the game - my opinion is we need to make the international game more competitive, having our best players being conditioned, coached and playing alongside and against the best every week can only be a positive.

Are the top players in SL comparable to the very best in NRL - not really, in the NRL there are - depending on position - 4-8 players in every position in the NRL that are better than any player in SL in the same position. If we talk about the centres it could be into double figures such is the derth of talent in SL

Roby should be better than Buderus - Buderus was well past his best when he came to Leeds - the fact he is still able to compete shows what a player he was at his peak. Roby is not as good as Issac Luke, Robbie Farah, Michael Ennis so to say he is the second best hooker in the world is a matter of conjecture not fact. He looks good in a poor league - the three I mentioned look good in a top league. It could be argued that Michael Monaghan is the best hooker in SL and not Roby

In the last 20 years the Aussies system has also produced Benji Marshall, Brad Fittler and Laurie Daley so to say Lockyer is a once in a generation player isn't quite correct. The Aussies will produce another Lockyer in the next five years.

Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:52 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

Has it been confirmed anywhere that the intention is for Peacock to still be Leeds premier prop for the next 2 years, or could it simply be the case that he is getting the infamous "Leeds loyalty" contract?

We have no idea what the terms of the contract are, they could well include a second year in a purely coaching capacity only, so to speculate about what he will be like in 2 years is a little futile.

Given the announcement of his extended contract I would suggests the odds of him still playing in two years are pretty high. Why would his contract be any different to the 3 years given to JJB?

Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:59 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Given the announcement of his extended contract I would suggests the odds of him still playing in two years are pretty high. Why would his contract be any different to the 3 years given to JJB?

The contract for JP could be different to the contract for JJB simply down to their age and effectiveness. Whilst both players started their top grade careers late (JP down to the age he started playing, and JJB down to injury problems at the start of his career) JP is much older and appears to be sliding down the hill much faster than JJB.

I think the announcement was down to missing Ellis tbh, if we had got Ellis then I doubt this would have been announced so early. I suspect GH thought we needed some positive news and released this news about the England Captain to try to but a better spin on a "bad news day".

In terms of what I think to the deal, 2 years is a long time in sport, and I doubt that JP will be in a position to play most weeks in his second year, assuming it is in fact a 2 year playing contract. I would have given 1 year, and then reviewed again after that. I agree with you that he looks very pedestrian at the moment.

One thing that is becoming clear is we need to bring Amor back from Wakey to cover the loss of Leuluai and the workload we are losing with Peacock in his current state.

Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:47 pm  

batleyrhino wrote:

The contract for JP could be different to the contract for JJB simply down to their age and effectiveness. Whilst both players started their top grade careers late (JP down to the age he started playing, and JJB down to injury problems at the start of his career) JP is much older and appears to be sliding down the hill much faster than JJB..

Careful, that's akin to heresy on here.

You could have put a traffic cone in that Leeds defensive line at times last night and it would have been more effective than either of the pensioner props.

Thankfully one's off already at the end of the season. Sadly, Hetherington has decided to balance it out by extending the contract of the other.

Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:51 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The original point was how can sending our best players to the NRL benefit the game - my opinion is we need to make the international game more competitive, having our best players being conditioned, coached and playing alongside and against the best every week can only be a positive.

It would be terrible for the game in this country, we would have lost all our best players.

Are the top players in SL comparable to the very best in NRL - not really, in the NRL there are - depending on position - 4-8 players in every position in the NRL that are better than any player in SL in the same position. If we talk about the centres it could be into double figures such is the derth of talent in SL

You mean centres like Brett Delany who is probably the 4th best centre at Leeds behind two kids and a back rower? Centres like Matt King who got shunted out on the wing for a player who cant even get in the elite training side in Ryan Atkins? Or Clinton Toopi? There isnt 4-8 players better than the best English players. There are some very good British players, and some very very good Australians, but there are also a fair few who are pretty damn average.

Roby should be better than Buderus - Buderus was well past his best when he came to Leeds - the fact he is still able to compete shows what a player he was at his peak. Roby is not as good as Issac Luke, Robbie Farah, Michael Ennis so to say he is the second best hooker in the world is a matter of conjecture not fact. He looks good in a poor league - the three I mentioned look good in a top league. It could be argued that Michael Monaghan is the best hooker in SL and not Roby

It is a matter of conjecture that Luke, Farah or Ennis are better than Roby not fact. Wayne Bennett has said that Buderus is the equal of Ennis, considering it is accepted by even you that Roby is a better player than Buderus, so it follows, unless you disagree with Wayne Bennett that Roby is better than Ennis.

In the last 20 years the Aussies system has also produced Benji Marshall, Brad Fittler and Laurie Daley so to say Lockyer is a once in a generation player isn't quite correct. The Aussies will produce another Lockyer in the next five years.

Bloody hell, we are going back to freddie fittler and Laurie Daley? Brad Fittler is 40 years old, how old do you think he was when the Aussies started bringing him through, Laurie Daley is 42, and he retired 13 years ago. Australia havent produced a Lockyer since Lockyer because he was such an outstanding player. lets not beat ourselves up that we arent producing once in a generation players. Even the best do it rarely.

Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:59 pm  

Peacock seems a shadow of himself this year on previous years. Admittedly only seen him twice this year on sky.

But good luck to him all the same.

Re: 2 year deal for JP : Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:22 pm  

Lets face it JP is getting older, and like everyone else is getting slower. This will obviously have an effect on his performances and despite giving his best every week (and thats no a wind up) he is nowhere near as effective as he once was. I think this will be his last season as a player and he will move to the coaching staff, where he will have lots to offer.