Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:18 am  

Lprhino wrote:

Watkins has been going well, but this is a player who is naturally one of the most talented outside backs (English) that has played in super league. He played centre for England and is playing back row for Salford. I think that says a lot about the quality of English centres to be honest. I have put the stats below because I think we fundamentally disagree about ripping it up actually means. The stats also have the leader and martins stats given he plays back row for us.

MATCH STATS for Kallum Watkins according to super league website.
Appearances: 12. LEADER: 20 Martin 18
Tries: 3 LEADER: 21 Martin 4
Goals: 0 LEADER: 68 martin 58
Try Assists: 4 LEADER: 25 martin 3
Attacking kicks: 3 LEADER: 88 Martin 6
Average gain: 8.07 LEADER: 16 Martin 7.44
Carries: 138 LEADER: 332 Martin 241
Clean Breaks: 1 LEADER: 26 Martin 3
Kicks in general play: 3 LEADER: 197 Martin 7
Marker Tackles: 90 LEADER: 163 Martin 57
Metres: 1114 LEADER: 2869 Martin 1794
Runs from Dummy Half: 0 LEADER: 142 Martin 5
Offload: 15 LEADER: 34 Martin 24
Tackle Busts: 28 LEADER: 96 Martin 29
Tackles: 394 LEADER: 796 Martin 399
Penalties: 8 LEADER: 18 Martin 7
Missed Tackles: 25 LEADER: 70 Martin 25
Errors: 15 LEADER: 29 Martin 13
Yellow Cards: 1 LEADER: 3 Martin 0

Good stats and work there to show this. However what about big game experience/performance ? Magic play in a big game? Leadership?. I know which of the two I’d rather have in my team…..and I do think Martins a very good player.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:21 pm  

Shabino wrote:

Good stats and work there to show this. However what about big game experience/performance ? Magic play in a big game? Leadership?. I know which of the two I’d rather have in my team…..and I do think Martins a very good player.

But we aren’t talking about a straight pick between players are we. I was posting the stats in response to you suggesting Kallum was ripping it up. I don’t think the stats suggest he is, or if they do then Martin isn’t far away from ripping it up as well.

That was on the back of you suggesting signing a 32/33 year old wasn’t an issue and using the example of Kallum ripping it up to support your point.

That doesn’t take into account that Kallum is from Salford, he isn’t moving anywhere new, also he has been at Salford for a couple of years so he isn’t going into a new club environment and needing to get to grips with it. Kallum has played the majority of his career in the super league and knows the league incredibly well. Kallum has moved position to take into account his decreasing athletic ability. The driving point of the convo was
Luetele and if signing him was a good idea. So luetele is obviously not from Leeds, I don’t know if he lives in Leeds but he may need to move if he was to join. He has played 33 super league games and would obviously be joining a new environment. He does does play centre and isn’t moving position so he is very reliant on his athletic ability to perform given his strength and speed are main plus points. Also luetele is a year older, he will be 33 in April or next year.

Creating a squad, with a cap is not as simple as is player A better than what we have in player B. It is how long will player A be around, will player A always be better than player B. Does player A cost more and if so how much more and is that worth it given the relative difference in quality between them. Will player A fit into the squad and ethos of the team and how we want to play. What is the general age of our squad, is it better to make a longer term investment in a player to avoid needing to replace them in a couple of years because we already know we have some big players leaving in 1-2 years time. There are obviously many others but those are some basic top of the head things to consider.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:28 pm  

Shabino wrote:

Good stats and work there to show this. However what about big game experience/performance ? Magic play in a big game? Leadership?. I know which of the two I’d rather have in my team…..and I do think Martins a very good player.

So do I, Rhyse Martin. Kallum is yesterdays news as far as anyone other than Salford are concerned, and Leeds should not be in for Leutele who would be 33 by the time we get going next season.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:44 pm  

Lprhino wrote:

But we aren’t talking about a straight pick between players are we. I was posting the stats in response to you suggesting Kallum was ripping it up. I don’t think the stats suggest he is, or if they do then Martin isn’t far away from ripping it up as well.

That was on the back of you suggesting signing a 32/33 year old wasn’t an issue and using the example of Kallum ripping it up to support your point.

That doesn’t take into account that Kallum is from Salford, he isn’t moving anywhere new, also he has been at Salford for a couple of years so he isn’t going into a new club environment and needing to get to grips with it. Kallum has played the majority of his career in the super league and knows the league incredibly well. Kallum has moved position to take into account his decreasing athletic ability. The driving point of the convo was
Luetele and if signing him was a good idea. So luetele is obviously not from Leeds, I don’t know if he lives in Leeds but he may need to move if he was to join. He has played 33 super league games and would obviously be joining a new environment. He does does play centre and isn’t moving position so he is very reliant on his athletic ability to perform given his strength and speed are main plus points. Also luetele is a year older, he will be 33 in April or next year.

Creating a squad, with a cap is not as simple as is player A better than what we have in player B. It is how long will player A be around, will player A always be better than player B. Does player A cost more and if so how much more and is that worth it given the relative difference in quality between them. Will player A fit into the squad and ethos of the team and how we want to play. What is the general age of our squad, is it better to make a longer term investment in a player to avoid needing to replace them in a couple of years because we already know we have some big players leaving in 1-2 years time. There are obviously many others but those are some basic top of the head things to consider.

Thanks for that. You wouldn’t think I’d been watching RL for the past 30 years would you?!!

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:59 pm  

Shabino wrote:

Thanks for that. You wouldn’t think I’d been watching RL for the past 30 years would you?!!

* - listening to, surely?

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:31 pm  

I would not be considering anybody at 33 unless ifs a short term deal such as a one year contract. The only exception would be a truly world class player looking for a different experience rather than a pay day not available in the NRL in a key position such as when Buderus signed for us.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:27 pm  

Another downside to signing Leutele is having hudds fans all over the board every time he missed a game or even dropped a pass..

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:57 am  

Once were Loiners wrote:

Because its ridiculous if we're serious about building for the future.

How many outside backs are any good at 33? Peacock was a different animal altogether - incredibly motivated and looked after himself and playing in a position where sheer effort makes a lot of difference. He was also already with us aged 33, and wasn't the same player in 2015 he had been previously though. McGuire was excellent in 2017 but not through athleticism but through smarts, and he'd slowed enormously compared to his younger self. An outside back needs to be athletically right up there.

I think its bonkers to even think of signing an outside back of that age. At some point age catches up with everyone, and an outside back can't make up for it by guile or just working hard. Lack of speed and loss of power will just make them duff players.

Ryan Hall at 34 is in the top 10 across Super League for both try’s scored and metres made. He also forced his way back into the England side against the all stars earlier this year. Super League’s top try scorer Ken Sio will turn 32 later this season.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:00 am  

Lprhino wrote:

I did qualify that but saying prop would be the only position I would consider above that ago, guess what position JP was! I have no issue with older players, just feel that signing somebody mid 20’s and keeping them for 6-7 years is a much better plan that splashing cash on a 32/33 year old who realistically is going downwards.

If the option was to sign a better player who was 32 or an inferior player in their mid 20’s I’d much rather we go for the better player despite them being older. Age is obviously taken into account when we offer players contracts, in both the value and length of the contract.

Re: Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4 : Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:58 am  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

If the option was to sign a better player who was 32 or an inferior player in their mid 20’s I’d much rather we go for the better player despite them being older. Age is obviously taken into account when we offer players contracts, in both the value and length of the contract.

Is it ever that simple? Would you sign the 32 year old if quota/cap situation increased the chances of them playing behind a beaten pack? Or if the difference in quality was pretty marginal? Would you factor in likelihood of injury and length of recovery? Etc.