Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:45 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

Welcome on board, it's a fun ride, especially when we are as bad as we are right now!

Add in a Centre to replace Sutcliffe and I think you are pretty close to what will actually happen in this close season.

I think Sutcliffe with retain the number 4 shirt, in fairness he did show promise in that position at the end of 2017.

Not saying he should keep the shirt but I think that's what will happen.

When you look at the team posted above it should be goof enough to be challenging top 4 IMO, if we can get walker fully fit and a full year out of Garbutt thats like 2 new signings. The overall squad is light though so I agree a prop and second row added to that and I'll be relatively happy.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:27 pm  

christopher wrote:

I think Sutcliffe with retain the number 4 shirt, in fairness he did show promise in that position at the end of 2017.

Not saying he should keep the shirt but I think that's what will happen.

When you look at the team posted above it should be goof enough to be challenging top 4 IMO, if we can get walker fully fit and a full year out of Garbutt thats like 2 new signings. The overall squad is light though so I agree a prop and second row added to that and I'll be relatively happy.

Christopher in what way do you believe that squad should be good enough to challenge top 4? Just a question.

If you look down it and compare to the top four, i.e Saints, Wigan, Cas, Warrington, how many do you truely believe would get into their teams? Personally I would say probably, Watkins, Lolohea, Myler, Garbutt, Ward and Parcell, although not in all of the top four. Possibly there may be a spot for Cuthbertson, Peteru, and I would guess all before now would have developed Smith better.

But that is only 6 maximum certainties. And remember they would not all be in the same team, so would require good players around to back them up. What you have left in the Leeds squad is not that standard for that challenge.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:39 pm  

Gotcha wrote:

Christopher in what way do you believe that squad should be good enough to challenge top 4? Just a question.

If you look down it and compare to the top four, i.e Saints, Wigan, Cas, Warrington, how many do you truely believe would get into their teams? Personally I would say probably, Watkins, Lolohea, Myler, Garbutt, Ward and Parcell, although not in all of the top four. Possibly there may be a spot for Cuthbertson, Peteru, and I would guess all before now would have developed Smith better.

But that is only 6 maximum certainties. And remember they would not all be in the same team, so would require good players around to back them up. What you have left in the Leeds squad is not that standard for that challenge.

Not the squad, but the first 17, mainly because I don't think they are playing to anywhere near their potential, remember the majority of that team won the GF and finished in 2nd place the year before this one.

Also flip the question around, do you think all of Wigan's, Was, Warrington's and Saints players would get in our first team? I'd say not but because they are playing well as a whole they look better than the sum of their parts, that happens in team sports.

Darryl Powell gets praise heaped onto him for getting what seem like below standard players playing like superstars, so just saying hardly any of our players would get into their teams seems a little simplistic to me.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:08 pm  

Well

FB: barba(may leave) Tomkins (escare) Roberts, ratchford. I would take Walker over Roberts, Escare and possibly Tomkins. Ratchford is ahead of Walker IMO

WG: makinson and grace, Davis and burgess, minikin and Eden, linehan and Charnley. Would take T briscoe over grace, Davis, minikin and probably charnley, L briscoe however would be near bottom of a list of those players IMO.

CE: Percival and Morgan, sarginson and gildartt, Shelton and wardle( Webster is leaving) Atkins and Goodwin. I would take Watkins over anybody else in that list. I would take Sutcliffe over Morgan, probably over wardle, over sarginson, over Atkins. However it really depends how you play, the correct structure can make an average centre look great or a brilliant centre look average.

HB: lomax and Richardson (fages and smith), Powell and Williams, Ellis and gale (trueman) brown and Roberts (appreciate Roberts is leaving and Austin is coming in) I think it’s all pretty even here, as a combo I like myler and Lolohea.

BR: LMS taia and peyroux (Wilkin gone), o’loughlin Farrell and greenwood, Milner mcmeekin and Holmes, b currie, j Hughes and BM masilla. Don’t really rate the saint BR, Wigan has some age and injury issues now Bateman has gone, cas is a decent BR. Warrington BR is very impressive. If Ward and Cuthbertson stay fit and ferres can get even fitter then I think those 3 are decent.

HK: leuluai, Toby, mcshane and d Clark. Parcell is in that mix but it would be tight.

Prop unit: walmsley amor Thompson and Douglas, hill cooper akauola and g king, millington moors sene-lafao and Watts, club flower Sutton and tautai. I think Garbutt, Singleton, peteru and Oledzki isn’t a bad fit on that.

Long winded response but the 13 and 4 subs probably aren’t that different to the top 13 and subs for cas, wire, Wigan or saints. I thin kwhere we drop massively is fitness, structure and back up players. Now Furner could fix fitness and structure and a couple of young lads could step up with even further additions the year after

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:33 pm  

Lprhino wrote:

Well

FB: barba(may leave) Tomkins (escare) Roberts, ratchford. I would take Walker over Roberts, Escare and possibly Tomkins. Ratchford is ahead of Walker IMO

WG: makinson and grace, Davis and burgess, minikin and Eden, linehan and Charnley. Would take T briscoe over grace, Davis, minikin and probably charnley, L briscoe however would be near bottom of a list of those players IMO.

CE: Percival and Morgan, sarginson and gildartt, Shelton and wardle( Webster is leaving) Atkins and Goodwin. I would take Watkins over anybody else in that list. I would take Sutcliffe over Morgan, probably over wardle, over sarginson, over Atkins. However it really depends how you play, the correct structure can make an average centre look great or a brilliant centre look average.

HB: lomax and Richardson (fages and smith), Powell and Williams, Ellis and gale (trueman) brown and Roberts (appreciate Roberts is leaving and Austin is coming in) I think it’s all pretty even here, as a combo I like myler and Lolohea.

BR: LMS taia and peyroux (Wilkin gone), o’loughlin Farrell and greenwood, Milner mcmeekin and Holmes, b currie, j Hughes and BM masilla. Don’t really rate the saint BR, Wigan has some age and injury issues now Bateman has gone, cas is a decent BR. Warrington BR is very impressive. If Ward and Cuthbertson stay fit and ferres can get even fitter then I think those 3 are decent.

HK: leuluai, Toby, mcshane and d Clark. Parcell is in that mix but it would be tight.

Prop unit: walmsley amor Thompson and Douglas, hill cooper akauola and g king, millington moors sene-lafao and Watts, club flower Sutton and tautai. I think Garbutt, Singleton, peteru and Oledzki isn’t a bad fit on that.

Long winded response but the 13 and 4 subs probably aren’t that different to the top 13 and subs for cas, wire, Wigan or saints. I thin kwhere we drop massively is fitness, structure and back up players. Now Furner could fix fitness and structure and a couple of young lads could step up with even further additions the year after

Someone has got very rose-tinted glasses on - Walker is a great prospect but to say he is a match for Sam Tomkins - really.

Parcell as good as Roby/Clark?

Myler/Lolohea how can you know at this stage one has never played in SL

Cuthbertson/Ferres/Ward - one never plays, one gets on the field and does nothing, one thinks he is a half back!!

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:50 pm  

Parcell is better than Roby. And he is about 2.6 million times better than Darryl Clark.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:51 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Someone has got very rose-tinted glasses on - Walker is a great prospect but to say he is a match for Sam Tomkins - really.

Parcell as good as Roby/Clark?

Myler/Lolohea how can you know at this stage one has never played in SL

Cuthbertson/Ferres/Ward - one never plays, one gets on the field and does nothing, one thinks he is a half back!!

He really didn’t say any of the things you are saying though did he

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:59 pm  

All about opinions.

On Walker I think yes I would prefer him to ST. He has had numerous injuries, lost his pace and I wouldn’t say he was a super attaching threat, he isn’t anywhere near the England team. Put walker in the Wigan structure and I think he looks better than ST. I respect if you don’t share that view.

Parcell was better than both roby and Clark the season before this. Put him in either saints or wire and I think he gives the same, as I said it is tight. The point is you wouldn’t have a huge issue with either of those three being you starting 9.

Myler/Lolohae fair point one hasn’t played but neither had Roberts at wire or will Austin next year. My point was as a combo I think they could work and I don’t personally think any partnership is miles ahead. Powell at Wigan isn’t great imo, lomax isn’t a half, Richardson is developing and I don’t see him doing much when saints aren’t on top on the forwards.

Cutho/ferres/Ward I did mention the fitness issue. If Ward is fit he is in the England squad and possibly team, every time he has been fit and played games they have looked to include him. Cuthbertson as a 13 with a good structure looks good in super league, to be clear I don’t see him as a prop as he can’t do heavy hard work for sustained periods. Ferres I mentioned fitness, he was an England back rower. If he is injury free and fit in furners south Sydney structure could do well.

Main point was starting 17 wouldn’t be miles away from the other four teams mentioned. Point I made remains, fitness structure and squad depth are the issues. Furner should be able to improve two of those things

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:32 pm  

christopher wrote:

He really didn’t say any of the things you are saying though did he

Yes he did - as he has just posted - perhaps you are once again struggling with the English language

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:40 pm  

Leeds starting 17 is way off being top 4, back row especially is dreadful. I can’t see a great deal of game management in Myler and Lolohea, they’ve 1 centre, Briscoe T is pretty average and Briscoe L is below that.