Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 2:02 pm  

christopher wrote:

I’d rather we do England V France properly and not have it has a Curtain Raiser for s championship game.

It’s not as simple as looking at SOO and saying they made it work the rivalry between the two states just doesn’t exist between Yorkshire and ‘Lancashire’. How many times do you hear crowds chant ‘Lancashire’ Yorkshire yes, but never the other way round.

Also on SOO wasn’t Australia RL played as two state Leagues for a lot of the time enhancing the rivalry?

I'd rather England and France - if it worked. But despite having a presence in SL for 20 years the French remain an international walk over. This isn't about what's good for French RL, it's about giving England the best possible chance of pushing Australia. And by the way, I think you are under playing the rivalry. I believe we still play Roses games at both amateur and academy level so it's not like it's something that's dead to the sporting culture. Just check out the attendances for the T Twenty cricket matches if you think it can't be sold to folk. Anyway, it looks like it's going to happen, so I guess we won't have to wait too long to gauge its appeal.

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 2:20 pm  

Exactly. The Roses matches in the cricket are still the biggest domestic games in cricket outside of India. Anyway, even if the rivalry may not be as strong as we want it to be, then perhaps we should create it? Look at boxing as an example, and how they build their biggest fights as an example, build the 'hatred' between the players during SL games and in the media.

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:33 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

I'd rather England and France - if it worked. But despite having a presence in SL for 20 years the French remain an international walk over. This isn't about what's good for French RL, it's about giving England the best possible chance of pushing Australia. And by the way, I think you are under playing the rivalry. I believe we still play Roses games at both amateur and academy level so it's not like it's something that's dead to the sporting culture. Just check out the attendances for the T Twenty cricket matches if you think it can't be sold to folk. Anyway, it looks like it's going to happen, so I guess we won't have to wait too long to gauge its appeal.

Are the T Twenty Cricket matches stand alone fixtures/fixture or are they part of a wider league structure?

I’m not totally against the idea, I’m far from convinced it will help England beat Australia, I really don’t think the intensity would even match a regular SL game, and in the short term it would probably be a Lancashire walkover. Is Wane just wanting a one off game?

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:44 pm  

christopher wrote:

Are the T Twenty Cricket matches stand alone fixtures/fixture or are they part of a wider league structure?

I’m not totally against the idea, I’m far from convinced it will help England beat Australia, I really don’t think the intensity would even match a regular SL game, and in the short term it would probably be a Lancashire walkover. Is Wane just wanting a one off game?

I can't agree on the intensity. I would expect that if the players knew that their performance in the match would be a factor in playing any series of test matches that would be the pinnacle of their involvement in the sport, you'd get some real commitment and desire to win. Also, it gives our players a chance to test themselves in a scenario where the key positions in the team aren't filled by exiled NRL players. That gives English players from less fashionable sides a chance to represent themselves in an environment outside of the sometimes humdrum, less than intense grind of weekly SL matches. Whether it prepares us to win against Australia is another matter, but what I do know that when it was played on a regular basis (mid eighties/early noughties) we were getting test wins against the Aussies on a fairly frequent basis. You can dismiss that as coincidence I suppose, but I'm totally confident it's a more meaningful fixture in every sense than a mid season stroll against France.

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:08 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

I can't agree on the intensity. I would expect that if the players knew that their performance in the match would be a factor in playing any series of test matches that would be the pinnacle of their involvement in the sport, you'd get some real commitment and desire to win. Also, it gives our players a chance to test themselves in a scenario where the key positions in the team aren't filled by exiled NRL players. That gives English players from less fashionable sides a chance to represent themselves in an environment outside of the sometimes humdrum, less than intense grind of weekly SL matches. Whether it prepares us to win against Australia is another matter, but what I do know that when it was played on a regular basis (mid eighties/early noughties) we were getting test wins against the Aussies on a fairly frequent basis. You can dismiss that as coincidence I suppose, but I'm totally confident it's a more meaningful fixture in every sense than a mid season stroll against France.

I’d suggest the reason we we winning a few games against Aussies in those periods was because we were actually playing them regularly and nothing to do with a poorly attended mud week game

Wasn’t the last time we played Australia 2018? It’s pretty hard to best them when you play them so infrequently

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:22 pm  

christopher wrote:

I’d suggest the reason we we winning a few games against Aussies in those periods was because we were actually playing them regularly and nothing to do with a poorly attended mud week game

Wasn’t the last time we played Australia 2018? It’s pretty hard to best them when you play them so infrequently

I sense I'm not going to convince you on this, Chris. A couple of final points: since the last time the roses match was played in 2003 (we lost the Ashes series that year 3 - 0 by a combined total of 10 points) our combined GB/England record against Australia is won 2 - lost 17. Now, I accept that there are lies, damned lies, and there are statistics, but what I will say is that when the game was played regularly from the mid 80's to the early 90's our international performances improved out of site, and for the only time in my life there was actually a hope/expectation that we could win. Now again, that might be a coincidence but I suspect if you asked the likes of Hanley, Schofield and Reilly if they would be in favour of returning the fixture to its place in the calendar they would say yes.

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:42 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

I sense I'm not going to convince you on this, Chris. A couple of final points: since the last time the roses match was played in 2003 (we lost the Ashes series that year 3 - 0 by a combined total of 10 points) our combined GB/England record against Australia is won 2 - lost 17. Now, I accept that there are lies, damned lies, and there are statistics, but what I will say is that when the game was played regularly from the mid 80's to the early 90's our international performances improved out of site, and for the only time in my life there was actually a hope/expectation that we could win. Now again, that might be a coincidence but I suspect if you asked the likes of Hanley, Schofield and Reilly if they would be in favour of returning the fixture to its place in the calendar they would say yes.

Yes I’m afraid you’re not going to convince me that the roses games - especially in the early 00s had any bearing on the games against the Aussies. You mentioned 2003, that was a totally lopsided roses match with quite a few players not bothering to play.

As I say I’m not totally against the idea I just don’t think it will be of the intensity or generate the interest to make it worth bringing back.

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 7:41 pm  

christopher wrote:

Yes I’m afraid you’re not going to convince me that the roses games - especially in the early 00s had any bearing on the games against the Aussies. You mentioned 2003, that was a totally lopsided roses match with quite a few players not bothering to play.

As I say I’m not totally against the idea I just don’t think it will be of the intensity or generate the interest to make it worth bringing back.

I guess seeing is believing. The England head coach wants it. IMG want it. Let's see what they can bring to the table in terms of repackaging and selling it.

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 7:56 pm  

Hopefully do a decent length series. As long as players and clubs buy in and it's not mid week it could work. Would prefer a 4 team championship between Yorkshire Lancashire France and Wales though.

Re: England Vs Samoa Test Series : Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:55 pm  

What was the crowd attendance please?