Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:13 am  

Simmo71 wrote:

We should be beating them Chris.

Player for player across the 17, on paper we are stronger.

No excuses for me.

I agree, but so should Wigan.

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:13 am  

Simmo71 wrote:

I agree. Too many individual errors last night and they were costly.
But taking those out of the question - are you happy with how we competed last night?

If we forget about the mistakes, the weather, the referee - are we happy with the effort and intensity we showed?
Simple answer for me.
\

We do need far more first half defensive aggression. We have all season. Starting every game on the back foot then expecting to go up through the gears isn't sustainable every game. That much is down to coaching and playing instructions. The first half was like a training session for Abdull last night.

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:14 am  

ArthurClues wrote:

Really? Are sure about that? Player for player comparisons would take too long, but if you compare the spine positions: Coote v Hooley - no contest; Abdul v Austin - Win for Abdul especially at their ground; Lewis v Sezer - Lewis is a player a good many on this site have said they would like as a replacement for Sezer; Parcell v O'Connor - Seasoned pro surely edges the rookie. In other positions; did we have a winger as good as Hall? Is Martin really better than Linnett? My point is that Hull KR, (and most other teams in the league) spend up to the cap, just like we do. We aren't just plain better than them like in the early days of the Golden Generation. To win games like last night's we are going to have to play very well. Last night, in terrible conditions, we didn’t and as a result we lost. We'll beat plenty of good teams when we our spine clicks, but it's obvious they are not collectively good enough to do the job every week. That's why this year's recruitment is absolutely key.

I'm absolutely sure.
I said on paper.
On paper, Austin and Sezer's pedigree is way ahead of Lewis and Abdul (same principle you've applied with Parcell and O'Connor) - but the reality is clearly very different.
On paper, a 28 year old Fusitua should be better than a 35 year old Ryan Hall. Cleary the reality is different.
On paper, our fully fit pack is stronger than their pack from last night - but it was no contest.

We can agree on one thing Arthur, 7 games in and we're already looking ahead to next year's recruitment...

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:17 am  

Games aren’t played on paper - good job because if they were it would have been a sodden wet mush

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:22 am  

Shabino wrote:

Showed last year that you can lose at of games and still make top 6. I still firmly believe we will, then who knows….

We lost games at the start under the old regime. Smith took over and we won more. We’ve now seemingly regressed under Smith the longer he’s in charge. If we keep going as we are, basically win one lose win, we’ll be lucky to make the top 6. Don’t see how that’s progressing towards being a force again.

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:23 am  

Simmo71 wrote:

This passive, slow, laboured defence is giving the opposition momentum and territory and that meant that Abdul was in a position to put up an attacking kick every time and put us under pressure.
How many times were we in that position for Austin to do the same?
The game was played in our half.
The opposition make 70 metres a set, we make 30.
And our kicker is under pressure every time, the oppositions isn’t.
Recipe for defeat most of the time.

I think we’re getting a sense of where we are.
We’ll win odd games and then lose 2 or 3.
We’ll probably finish 7th or 8th.
We’ve pretty much played one, maybe two decent halves of rugby in 7 games, which is a reality check.

I’m not one in the ‘Smith Out’ corner, but the knives are out and the pressure will build.
On the face of it, I can take a 20-12 defeat to HKR, but the performance and ’tactics’ were dreadful.

Our tactics were never going to win through last night, I'll give you that. Never able to generate enough ruck speed, even with no lying on scrambling upright, clean ptb and anything bar the simplest passing out of dummy made very difficult by the conditions.

I still haven't given up on them being ultimately successful though. Under drier conditions, that slow line speed and a preference for 2 men in the tackle - and I think both are deliberate -encourages the opposition to play quick. There's a lot of teams that don't do that well, especially over the full 80 as fatigue and errors start creeping in. Us allowing a quick ptb steers refs towards ensuring the opposition does the same which makes for our kind of game. And we've seen it happen, albeit not often enough.

As of now, it's strictly theoretical and you might be spot on in terms of where we finish if we stick with it. But I think Smith's every bit as stubborn as Brian McDermott and sticking with it's exactly what we will do. I'm cautiously optimistic it'll improve with drier tracks* and if it does prove the antidote to lying on, 5 drives followed by a kick to corners etc then I'll be ecstatic.

*I'm aware September & October can be wet months

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:26 am  

Shabino wrote:

Showed last year that you can lose at of games and still make top 6. I still firmly believe we will, then who knows….

Is top 6 what we should be aiming for? I think Leeds should be aiming for top 4 minimum, and a cup semi each season. To get top 4 we would need to win around 60% of our games (this should be doable for a club with our resources). We’re currently at 43%, and would need to win 13 of our remaining 20 regular season games a success rate of 65%. I don’t see that happening at the moment do you?

If we were to finish 4th, that would mean we are likely competing with St Helens, Warrington, Wigan and probably Catalans. We’ve beaten two of those this season, but we’re losing to teams we should be beating. If we’re not aiming for top 4, we’re accepting standards that are too low in my opinion.

This season isn’t over by any means, but it’s not looking like a step forward either. The recruitment for next year is pivotal to the development of the younger players as they start to come into the team or consolidate there. We need to replace most of the spine with much better more consistent quality leaders, who can help the kids to come through. If we get it right, we’re on the way back to where we should be, get it wrong and we’re stuck on another loop of cap tied up in the wrong players.

The next 12 months are very important to the next 5 years or more.

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:33 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

Is top 6 what we should be aiming for? I think Leeds should be aiming for top 4 minimum, and a cup semi each season. To get top 4 we would need to win around 60% of our games (this should be doable for a club with our resources). We’re currently at 43%, and would need to win 13 of our remaining 20 regular season games a success rate of 65%. I don’t see that happening at the moment do you?

If we were to finish 4th, that would mean we are likely competing with St Helens, Warrington, Wigan and probably Catalans. We’ve beaten two of those this season, but we’re losing to teams we should be beating. If we’re not aiming for top 4, we’re accepting standards that are too low in my opinion.

This season isn’t over by any means, but it’s not looking like a step forward either. The recruitment for next year is pivotal to the development of the younger players as they start to come into the team or consolidate there. We need to replace most of the spine with much better more consistent quality leaders, who can help the kids to come through. If we get it right, we’re on the way back to where we should be, get it wrong and we’re stuck on another loop of cap tied up in the wrong players.

The next 12 months are very important to the next 5 years or more.

Was always going to be about next season when Smith joined IMO, the cap has been so badly managed it was never going to get fixed in Smiths first full year.

Look at Watsons first year at Hudds and likewise Powells at Warrington.

However I haven’t written us off this year, we could go on and win something.

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:40 am  

A lot of delusion on here isn’t there!? I would’ve been hugely disappointed to have lost to Leeds as I think your halves are second worst to only Wakefields halves and you pack really isn’t up to much - plus you have no depth.

Guy who keeps banging on about man for man, there’s probably only 4 players I would take from your starting 13.

As for Myler making a difference, he’s shocking under the highball and it doesn’t matter who Abdul comes up against - his bombs are horrible to take. I was actually disappointed Myler didn’t play as I don’t rate him in the slightest.

Fusatua (spelling) has never and will never be better than Ryan Hall who would still walk in to any starting 13 in the division.

Reality is - you’re now very much a mid level club who massively over achieved last year, but keep telling yourselves different if it strokes your egos….

Oh, and the score line absolutely flattered Leeds fwiw.

Re: SL RD 7 | Hull KR (A) : Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:44 am  

Im still a fan of Smith, but think he's maybe teetering the wrong side of the line separating fresh/new ideas and ignoring the principals of successful rugby at the moment. The slow, connected line speed was literally the worst tactic we could of used in those conditions with that kicker last night, we practically invited them into putting bombs up with the ammount of ground we surrenderd.

Feel like he's attempting to reinvent the wheel at the minute, the signs were there in Pre season, with what appeared to be way too much unnecessary piddling about with positions etc and has carried over into our season to date imo.

Really feel for Sam Walters aswel, if the teams picked on form, he should not of been dropped for the Cas game or last night.