Re: Well done Rangi : Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:55 am  

[quote="vastman"]FWIW



My own opinion is that he should not be picked because he isn't British by birth, nor has he as far as i'm aware applied to be a British citizen. He is a Kiwi, end of IMO - that is my belief and I simply can't see any justification for what has happened - morally at least.


I agree with your sentiments about Rangi being a Kiwi and not being eligible to play for England as this is a belief i have always had. I do not agree however that there is no justification for him playing for England, every other sport allows this to happen and even the Aussies and Kiwi's in rugby league are guilty of this. Therefore we either follow suit or get left further behind by not picking the best players available under the current rules. Yorkshire cricket club had the same beliefs but had eventually to allow foreigners into the team or get left totally behind. I will never agree with it happening but i have to accept it until all countries put a stop to it and we all know this will never happen.

Re: Well done Rangi : Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:30 pm  

[quote="tigerman49"]

That's why I added "morally" at the end.

Yes I accept your point and in legal terms the Aussies set the precedence for all this. It's mainly an old fashioned belief issue with me and a belief that it doesn't reward British players.

Also there is a problem as to when it stops - for example when does England cease to be a National team add become a composite best of SL team who just use the England name as a marketing tag. If you use the same justification that allows Rangi to play then logically the England team could have as many as 10 such players in it's ranks - is that really what we want.

Also imagine (hyperthetical) that Rangi was a Wakefield player and he was picked over your own up and coming youngster Jimmy Bloggs. Even though Wakefield star Rangi at that point was marginally better and more experienced would you not feel a little disappointed - I would. I'm not sure as to availability etc but I would feel very sorry for Burrows and Myler who though not quite as good this season have had decent seasons as had the lad at Saints.

The irony of all this is that should we win the series there will be a huge debate as to whether Rangi made a difference and if so was it a genuine win, which will be a shame.

If Rangi were British I'd give him the nod, but he isn't and I don't reckon he is so much better than the others mentioned to warrant his selection over British players.

Re: Well done Rangi : Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:17 pm  

Apart from the Fact Rob pulled out of the squad due to injury

vastman wrote:

?

vastman wrote:

tigerman49 wrote:

That's why I added "morally" at the end.

Yes I accept your point and in legal terms the Aussies set the precedence for all this. It's mainly an old fashioned belief issue with me and a belief that it doesn't reward British players.

Also there is a problem as to when it stops - for example when does England cease to be a National team add become a composite best of SL team who just use the England name as a marketing tag. If you use the same justification that allows Rangi to play then logically the England team could have as many as 10 such players in it's ranks - is that really what we want.

Also imagine (hyperthetical) that Rangi was a Wakefield player and he was picked over your own up and coming youngster Jimmy Bloggs. Even though Wakefield star Rangi at that point was marginally better and more experienced would you not feel a little disappointed - I would. I'm not sure as to availability etc but I would feel very sorry for Burrows and Myler who though not quite as good this season have had decent seasons as had the lad at Saints.

The irony of all this is that should we win the series there will be a huge debate as to whether Rangi made a difference and if so was it a genuine win, which will be a shame.

If Rangi were British I'd give him the nod, but he isn't and I don't reckon he is so much better than the others mentioned to warrant his selection over British players.

Re: Well done Rangi : Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:51 pm  

binks wrote:

Apart from the Fact Rob pulled out of the squad due to injury

That would be why I put "I'm not sure as to availability etc" - the point however remains the same.

Re: Well done Rangi : Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:45 pm  

vastman wrote:

Also imagine (hyperthetical) that Rangi was a Wakefield player and he was picked over your own up and coming youngster Jimmy Bloggs. Even though Wakefield star Rangi at that point was marginally better and more experienced would you not feel a little disappointed - I would. I'm not sure as to availability etc but I would feel very sorry for Burrows and Myler who though not quite as good this season have had decent seasons as had the lad at Saints.

TBH, it's happened to some of our players in the past (Tony Smith/Danny Orr/Dean Sampson) who have been sidelined to accommodate flavour of the month who plays for a "bigger" club. These were players who had the class to do well internationally (and not just in the opinion of Cas fans either, but had a lot of neutrals asking the question as to why they were systematically being left out of the GB teams).

It doesn't matter how good we think they are, however. That doesn't get them a team slot. What I will say is that if Jimmy Bloggs wasn't good enough to get into the team, he should be given no favours but should be given the incentive that if he performs well enough in the future, he will be given the opportunity. That, for me, has been a problem in the past, when the tried, tested and failed players get tried, tested and fail once again.

If there's competition for places, the game gets stronger.

Re: Well done Rangi : Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:52 pm  

Georgie Best on a Bloomer wrote:

TBH, it's happened to some of our players in the past (Tony Smith/Danny Orr/Dean Sampson) who have been sidelined to accommodate flavour of the month who plays for a "bigger" club. These were players who had the class to do well internationally (and not just in the opinion of Cas fans either, but had a lot of neutrals asking the question as to why they were systematically being left out of the GB teams).

It doesn't matter how good we think they are, however. That doesn't get them a team slot. What I will say is that if Jimmy Bloggs wasn't good enough to get into the team, he should be given no favours but should be given the incentive that if he performs well enough in the future, he will be given the opportunity. That, for me, has been a problem in the past, when the tried, tested and failed players get tried, tested and fail once again.

If there's competition for places, the game gets stronger.

I can honestly say that I have never heard any fan state that they believe Dean Sampson had the class to do well at international level.

Re: Well done Rangi : Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:21 pm  

imwakefieldtillidie wrote:

I can honestly say that I have never heard any fan state that they believe Dean Sampson had the class to do well at international level.

Stroll on little troll.

Re: Well done Rangi : Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:53 pm  

Whats the betting that loss was all Rangi's fault. Personally i thought Tompkins had a poor game.

Re: Well done Rangi : Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:14 pm  

Personally i thought the majority of our backs were poor, the forwards did a good job tonight but probably bar Hall and Reed who both didn't do much but did it well when they did the rest were average.

Tonights below par performances came from

Sinfield, Chase, Tomkins, Briscoe, Yeaman in the backs and JJB in the forwards

Re: Well done Rangi : Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:16 pm  

javachick wrote:

Whats the betting that loss was all Rangi's fault. Personally i thought Tompkins had a poor game.

Chase= gash.
Tomkins=gash.


Happy with that