: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:54 pm  

No way was westerman gonna be picked at international level this year.
The kid as just had shoulder surgery for starters.....the fit he had on the field against saints really knocked him back and he lost a bit of confidence.
There are better players in joes position just now, so give it a couple of years and he'll be a great internationl player.

: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:02 pm  

vastman wrote:

He was hyped to ridiculous levels both on here and in the media. He hasn't failed at all, he is currently at the level all sane watchers of the game expected - a work in progress - just like Dale Ferguson and all the rest.

He may never fulfill his potential - he may exceed all expectations - what's for certain is that he has plenty of time to do it.

Sure in Tomkins you have a player who seems fully formed and ready to go. However against the Kiwis there were a number of players who have taken some time to really hit the heights. Sinfield, Crabtree, Briscoe, Fox have all taken their time. Sinfield in particular has been a decent SL but never looked close to international standard until now and he was really hyped as a kid.

Finally much of Westermans future hinges heavily on what Cas achieve and how Matterson develops him.

You just can't leave it can you?



It's an obsession!

: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:17 pm  

poppys mum wrote:

No way was westerman gonna be picked at international level this year.
The kid as just had shoulder surgery for starters.....the fit he had on the field against saints really knocked him back and he lost a bit of confidence.
There are better players in joes position just now, so give it a couple of years and he'll be a great internationl player.

from what ive been told joe did his shoulder in the 3rd game of the year against salford but played on with it for the remainder of the season and come the end of this season it was held together by very little muscle.

its a miracle he got through the year tbh and im sure if he hadnt needed an op and was 100% fit he would have made the squad, but i agree with vasty you couldnt drop any of the back 3 for joe at the minute and he needs to keep up his improvment next year to be even considered for the england team but his future is in his own hands has they say.

: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:58 pm  

vastman wrote:

No it wasn't, but when you consider there was serious talk of him captaining the England team this Four Nations it put's it in context.

I have no real complaints about Smith team selection. I think Brough deserved a shot ahead of Myler. You probably think the same about Westerman - but the truth is neither are international standard at this exact moment IMHO. However Westerman may be one day where as Broughy won't IMHO. I bring this up because those I named have all the ingredients including experience so fair call to Smith. Westeman didn't get a fringe spot because unlke Tomkins his form running up to this comp was not mega if your honest. On top of that you didn't make the play offs which IMHO tends to put players out of mind.
The other more positive thing that holds Westerman back is that we now have a lot more good players than 5 years ago which makes it that much harder to gain a spot. I fairnes would you drop Ellis, Burgess, Westwood or Wilkins? I wouldn't.

It's just opinion.

PS, scoring loads of tries in SL does not make you an International class player - Jamie Rooney - need I say more

all fair points but i could have sworn we played wigan in the playoffs

: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:11 pm  

tigerman1 wrote:

all fair points but i could have sworn we played wigan in the playoffs

Strange I seem to remember Wigan in the PLay offs as well

: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:01 pm  

Hughies sister wrote:

Strange I seem to remember Wigan in the PLay offs as well

Whats even stanger is i was there, or did i dream it

: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:06 pm  

poppys mum wrote:

Whats even stanger is i was there, or did i dream it

he's been on them funny fags

(the claim will be he only recognises the old top 6 format )

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:13 am  

vastman wrote:

On top of that you didn't make the play offs which IMHO tends to put players out of mind.

I seemingly recall that we MADE the play-offs and got knocked out at the same stage as Wakefield.

[tb]

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:36 am  

Dead Man Walking wrote:

Is Richard Owen a Cas player for next season then ?

Yes. current contract runs tot he end of 2010, I believe.

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:30 am  

vastman wrote:

No it wasn't, but when you consider there was serious talk of him captaining the England team this Four Nations it put's it in context.

I have no real complaints about Smith team selection. I think Brough deserved a shot ahead of Myler. You probably think the same about Westerman - but the truth is neither are international standard at this exact moment IMHO. However Westerman may be one day where as Broughy won't IMHO. I bring this up because those I named have all the ingredients including experience so fair call to Smith. Westeman didn't get a fringe spot because unlke Tomkins his form running up to this comp was not mega if your honest. On top of that you didn't make the play offs which IMHO tends to put players out of mind.

The other more positive thing that holds Westerman back is that we now have a lot more good players than 5 years ago which makes it that much harder to gain a spot. I fairnes would you drop Ellis, Burgess, Westwood or Wilkins? I wouldn't.

It's just opinion.

PS, scoring loads of tries in SL does not make you an International class player - Jamie Rooney - need I say more

Where was the serious talk of him captaining this side coming from, i've heard a couple of people say he will be the england captain one day, but nothing about this tournemount.

As it happens i think brough would have been a better choice than mguire or myler, brough having the best long kicking game in sl apart from long and dobson. He's got the best defence of any half in the league i'd say too.

Erm we did make the playoffs vasty

Westermans form this season hasnt been great, (by his own very high standards) but 'running into this competition' ie the end of the season it was very good again he was a workhorse in defence and scored plenty of tries, as well as being a very accurate kicker.

Although he wouldnt have got a start westerman definatley deserved a place in the train on squad (danny tickle played against wales ffs) and of the names mentioned above i think he would be a better option of the bench than wilkin being bigger and more powerful and a useful reserve kicker should sinfield be injured. But no he is not better than ellis or burgess, though when him and westwood have been on the same pitch westerman has always looked the better player.

Your right theres nothing great about a back scoring lots of tries, being the highest scoring forward in the league is something special though, especially when you consider he outscored most backs in the league too when his team was rock bottom on his debut sl season.