: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:57 pm  

Am i the only one who thinks judging teams on average attendance is just stupid? we are the only sport who do this. I find it annoying and disturbing that any team in the champs could every game they play in for the nxt 2 yrs and not be allowed in because they don't get as many fans as some other teams. Does the criteria take into account the size of the town i.e. london has about 9million ppl where as Fax/Leigh/Widnes/Fev have less than 10% of that figure. I agree clubs should do all they can to increase att but its all relative, the average away support at the shay with the exception of widnes is about 100. If we were playing leeds/bulls/wigan/both hulls they would bring more than 1000 at least in the case of leeds/bradford prob more like 3000 + about 1000 fairweahter fax fans all of a sudden the average has rocketed.

at the end of the day as long as your facilities and finances are in order if you win the Co-op champs u deserve a place in super league above every other champs team. If we win the league this year/next year and widnes get in sl in front of us it will be just plain wrong!!!

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:59 pm  

faxlad66 wrote:

People wouldnt be so bothered if the 14 seasons hadnt been propped up with money that should have been used on heartland clubs. What sort of system lets its roots fall apart while branching out into a futile and pointless quest for RL in the capital just to appease Sky. There is nothing wrong with RL in London but it should be done the right way. Bramley went to the wall while the RL watched on and pumped money into clubs that IMO are not gonna work long term. I personally think that teams should start at the bottom and work there way up. Quins and Celtic are in an entirely false position...thats what gets people IMO. Not knocking you for supporting your team its just that it always appears to be concession after concession, year in year out.

Not saying we didn't get a leg up...we did. The point is, before Sky, the professional game was on its backside and wigan, winning everything every year did more damage to the game than putting a team in London or Wales ever will. The idea is for the game to get a broader audience and it is...just not quickly. We had an extended quota for years, but now have to abide by the rules and are developing our own players. When we went tits up in 2005, we weren't bailed out financially by the RFL...we found a benefactor with the funds to get us back on our feet. Sky want to sell dishes and pub subscriptions and to do that, they decided a London team was required. Therefore, we got the nod over Keighly and they are the only team who should have any problems with us. We never finished in a relegation position, so therefore, we are still in SL on merit. We have finished 2nd, made 2 other play-offs and reached a CC final.
London RL does make a contribution to the game and whilst the "team full of Auzzies" tag was well deserved in the past, we are now a genuine RL team, with a development team that wins awards and 2 current England internationals that we produced. It used to be the way that northern players wouldn't come down to play for us and now....we are considered a good option when players are looking for somewhere to play.
I am not saying that the bitterness of some fans in the heartlands is undeserved...just that those fans who think we don't deserve to be in SL need to get a reality check. Without London RL, SKY would possibly walk away and then where would the game be?
I like clubs like Halifax. Clubs with a proud history and great fans, but in reality, if SL was purely based along the M62, then the game, in my opinion, would never appeal to anyone north of potters bar....and that wouldn't be a substainable business model.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:00 pm  

I'd have Fax in above Quins and Celtic anyday of the week. I'd also give the French their own 'Super League', get rid of Catalans and replace them with Keighley.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:15 pm  

milpool wrote:

I'd have Fax in above Quins and Celtic anyday of the week. I'd also give the French their own 'Super League', get rid of Catalans and replace them with Keighley.

Mmmm. A well thought out and brilliantly constructed 40th Post. What, pray tell, do you believe that Halifax would bring to the table in place of Harlequins RL?
Fans? Doubt it. 2003 you averaged 500 less per game than London Broncos.
Development? maybe, but very debatable. London has a massive talent pool and england internationals at different age levels.
Exposure? Nah....sorry, but London, regardless of what people think is vital to the development of RL as a truly national and international sport.
A RL stadium? Nope, you share with a soccer team, we share with the other lot.

I will say it again. I like clubs like yours, but you had your chance in SL and you blew it. You went down in 2003 with 2 points which we gave you but the RFL took back because you didn't read the small print of the salary cap regulations. Given you have had a 100+ year head start on us, I find it strange that London are the problem and the reason you're not in SL and not your teams underperformance over the years.

I hope that Halifax get back into SL, but not at the expense of an expansionist team. If you submit an application in 2011 and have won either a GF or RW cup, your ground is up to it and the finances are in place, then you will get in.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:49 pm  

Brunoshayman wrote:

Am i the only one who thinks judging teams on average attendance is just stupid? we are the only sport who do this. I find it annoying and disturbing that any team in the champs could every game they play in for the nxt 2 yrs and not be allowed in because they don't get as many fans as some other teams. Does the criteria take into account the size of the town i.e. london has about 9million ppl where as Fax/Leigh/Widnes/Fev have less than 10% of that figure. I agree clubs should do all they can to increase att but its all relative, the average away support at the shay with the exception of widnes is about 100. If we were playing leeds/bulls/wigan/both hulls they would bring more than 1000 at least in the case of leeds/bradford prob more like 3000 + about 1000 fairweahter fax fans all of a sudden the average has rocketed.

at the end of the day as long as your facilities and finances are in order if you win the Co-op champs u deserve a place in super league above every other champs team. If we win the league this year/next year and widnes get in sl in front of us it will be just plain wrong!!!

Well said!....agree totally

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:57 pm  

Whatever the arguments are, whichever clubs we like to slag off we CANNOT hold our attendances in a positive light against any other club. I'm not sure how much weight BskyB put on having a London club or having a more expanded game - i'm not party to such negotiations but i bet it is significant. We had to sell our soul to Murdoch because the game was losing money and the players were demanding more money. The game has done very well out of the BskyB contract whether we like to admit it or not.

The only people who are in the sphere of influence in getting our club back into Super League are the Halifax club officials and the people of Calderdale. Our officials send out positive signals and are constantly looking forwards and are ambitious. The people of Calderdale have yet to respond in numbers. Sad fact, but true.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:08 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Not saying we didn't get a leg up...we did. The point is, before Sky, the professional game was on its backside and wigan, winning everything every year did more damage to the game than putting a team in London or Wales ever will. The idea is for the game to get a broader audience and it is...just not quickly. We had an extended quota for years, but now have to abide by the rules and are developing our own players. When we went tits up in 2005, we weren't bailed out financially by the RFL...we found a benefactor with the funds to get us back on our feet. Sky want to sell dishes and pub subscriptions and to do that, they decided a London team was required. Therefore, we got the nod over Keighly and they are the only team who should have any problems with us. We never finished in a relegation position, so therefore, we are still in SL on merit. We have finished 2nd, made 2 other play-offs and reached a CC final.
London RL does make a contribution to the game and whilst the "team full of Auzzies" tag was well deserved in the past, we are now a genuine RL team, with a development team that wins awards and 2 current England internationals that we produced. It used to be the way that northern players wouldn't come down to play for us and now....we are considered a good option when players are looking for somewhere to play.
I am not saying that the bitterness of some fans in the heartlands is undeserved...just that those fans who think we don't deserve to be in SL need to get a reality check. Without London RL, SKY would possibly walk away and then where would the game be?
I like clubs like Halifax. Clubs with a proud history and great fans, but in reality, if SL was purely based along the M62, then the game, in my opinion, would never appeal to anyone north of potters bar....and that wouldn't be a substainable business model.

Some very valid points! Please dont confuse me with being a bitter fan as im not. I have just always held the view that there should be a level playing field for everyone in order for things to be done the right way. As i said...im all for RL in the capital...Mr expansion..Definately, thats me! but its the way the powers that be go about it. You are right to point out that there are many positives to a London based club but when it often appears to be at the expense of other clubs i.e. Keighley as you pointed out, Bramley as i pointed out, with Rochdale and Oldham currently struggling and not a RFL rep in sight but Celtic are being "advised" with their problems etc....hope you see my point.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:16 pm  

littlerich wrote:

Whatever the arguments are, whichever clubs we like to slag off we CANNOT hold our attendances in a positive light against any other club. I'm not sure how much weight BskyB put on having a London club or having a more expanded game - i'm not party to such negotiations but i bet it is significant. We had to sell our soul to Murdoch because the game was losing money and the players were demanding more money. The game has done very well out of the BskyB contract whether we like to admit it or not.

The only people who are in the sphere of influence in getting our club back into Super League are the Halifax club officials and the people of Calderdale. Our officials send out positive signals and are constantly looking forwards and are ambitious. The people of Calderdale have yet to respond in numbers. Sad fact, but true.

Cant argue with that. However, if we were to imagine that we got a licence we all know that with the away support and the fickle fairwhether lot the attendance would get to at least 4000 and maybe more if successful. The priority is to definately get the young fans on board long term IMO.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:19 pm  

faxlad66 wrote:

Cant argue with that. However, if we were to imagine that we got a licence we all know that with the away support and the fickle fairwhether lot the attendance would get to at least 4000 and maybe more if successful. The priority is to definately get the young fans on board long term IMO.

We can't rely on "what if's". We have to prove that people will come and watch before we get a license.

: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:26 pm  

littlerich wrote:

We can't rely on "what if's". We have to prove that people will come and watch before we get a license.

Thats why i said the priority is to get the young fans on board