Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 10:08 am  

Greg Florimos Boots wrote:

Pretty much every post that has gone out he has been posting the link for donations. I'd love to know his overall thoughts on the whole situation, as faxcar says he is more than aware of some of the stuff that went on at Bradford so I am a little bit surprised he is encouraging people to hand over money to what seemingly looks like a lost cause and I wonder if he has any faith in the people running the club to do the right thing with the money donated. Maybe it turns out they hold the money back that has been donated but who knows.

Just on the sponsors going bust thing, it is rare that a sponsor would be signed up without either paying the money up front or at least in installments for the sponsorship so its unlikley the club lost fully out on these deals but if they did then again it is really poor due dilligence and management. They talk like a new deal that was missed out on has had a great effect but that really should not be taken in to consideration until the deal is over the line. The 100k deal and talk of it been for shirt sponsorships is just pie in the sky stuff.

Looking back at tweets from everyone on this he’s popped a link to FaxTrust on nearly everyone

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 10:09 am  

Listenup94 wrote:

I can’t believe that savvy businessmen have allowed us to get into this mess as supposed custodians of the club . Something feels off to me , call it gut instinct but it all feels manufactured .

It's scandalous that a £80k urgent bill has suddenly been dropped, with the supporters expected to pick up the tab.

Beware those who always blame others for their own mess. First it's the tax man's fault for not granting an extension, then it's sponsors fault for going bust, then it's that mysterious £100k withdrawn at the last minute and we also have the falling crowds even though that should have been expected after bumping up an already expensive admission by over 15%.

IMO the current BOD simply isn't up to the task of running the club and should go. Hopefully there's some folk out there who can step in and do a proper job.

I still think the best option is to bite the bullet and go into administration now. Otherwise we're just kicking the can down the road and all the current bail out is doing is having supporters pay off the tax man who'll most likely make another appearance in a year's time after yet more losses being racked up.

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 10:14 am  

Listenup94 wrote:

DPF has failed on the car so trying to sort that so can’t make it today .

I’ve done a bit more digging ( inadvertently) but ultimately it’s seems the club is split into to two trains of thought .

The club are deliberately going to let the club go bust and start fresh with new investment.

The directors don’t want the club to go bust because they’ll lose their own personal investment.

The investment/creditors are strongly rumoured to be the fraine bros , but I don’t know how much involvement they have now or in the future.

Both of those trains of thoughts could be right.

Specifically on directors wanting their “investment” back, I don’t think anyone invests money into a rugby club expecting a RoI.

This is again why the FaxTrust needs to be clear where the money will be used… player and staff wages or paying directors back

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 10:17 am  

Listenup94 wrote:

The directors don’t want the club to go bust because they’ll lose their own personal investment.
.

I would have thought they have't a hope of getting their investment back anyway! Just hope the donations aren't used for recouping any investments.

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 10:23 am  

MP wrote:

Who are the Fraine brothers?

We know them as orox, they both have multiple businesses.

I think Mike is the wealthiest , he was a director at r and r ice cream who was bought out by froneri ice cream where he his a director, not sure if he’s a shareholder or not but doubt it ( might be more tony fax’s’ department with companies house etc )
He also has something to do with worthingshaws ltd and him and Kirsty henshaw ( who was on dragons den ) are both listed as persons with significant control .

Andrew is part of gb total solutions who are based in west vale and may have other small businesses.

I heard they gifted the cost of the kits through their brand orox.

I think but I’m not sure that Ian uttley ( Stagefreight man ) is friends with them through cricketing connections.

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:26 am  

Listenup94 wrote:

We know them as orox, they both have multiple businesses.

I think Mike is the wealthiest , he was a director at r and r ice cream who was bought out by froneri ice cream where he his a director, not sure if he’s a shareholder or not but doubt it ( might be more tony fax’s’ department with companies house etc )
He also has something to do with worthingshaws ltd and him and Kirsty henshaw ( who was on dragons den ) are both listed as persons with significant control .

Andrew is part of gb total solutions who are based in west vale and may have other small businesses.

I heard they gifted the cost of the kits through their brand orox.

I think but I’m not sure that Ian uttley ( Stagefreight man ) is friends with them through cricketing connections.

Mike isn't a shareholder as Froneri is a wholly owned subsidiary of another UK company which in turn is owned by a parent a Luxembourg company. But interesting nevertheless, Froneri is a huge group covering Europe with the company Mike is a director of having net assets of over £90 million and the UK parent over £2 billion. I'm guessing Mike must be worth a bob or 2!

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:47 am  

Tony Fax wrote:

Mike isn't a shareholder as Froneri is a wholly owned subsidiary of another UK company which in turn is owned by a parent a Luxembourg company. But interesting nevertheless, Froneri is a huge group covering Europe with the company Mike is a director of having net assets of over £90 million and the UK parent over £2 billion. I'm guessing Mike must be worth a bob or 2!

Yes this was my thoughts, was mike a shareholder at r and r , will he have received monies from that takeover ?

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 1:00 pm  

Just been trying to buy a couple of extra tickets on the Panthers website and all the links take you to the discount offer that expired at midnight with no options to buy after midnight at the full price and I was only trying to help out anyway, very frustrating.

Anyway what's interesting / confusing is using this weeks link provided by the club shows you would be buying them from TicketPass.

So the question is are TicketPass still trading, if yes why are we still using them if they've not fulfilled their sponsorship commitments and are in danger of going bust and if there not still trading it makes even less sense.

I have no idea what's going on and can't make sense of any of it, anybody else any idea?

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 1:16 pm  

Tony Fax wrote:

I would have thought they have't a hope of getting their investment back anyway! Just hope the donations aren't used for recouping any investments.

Lead to believe that someones investment is in the shape of a loan which needs the club to stay afloat in it's current form to have any chance of getting it back.

On going into administration with the idea of returning would it required HMRC to approve it having at least received some of the monies owed in the shape of an acceptable offer and can a club just walk away and pop back up soon after?

Re: Call for funds : Sun Sep 08, 2024 1:16 pm  

Tony Fax wrote:

I still think the best option is to bite the bullet and go into administration now.

The Administration route is an option. But it depends on probably two critical things.

a) What percentage of the overall debt is owed to HMRC? To exit administration, a CVA would probably be required where the creditors are offered so many pence in the pound for the debt owed. HMRC always vote against the CVA route. It would also require the agreement of the other creditors. Would they be on board?
b) The club would need to prove that they could afford to meet the CVA obligations as well as the ongoing running costs. When HTAFC came out of administration (and into a CVA) back in 2001, they were repaying £4k a month to the administrators whilst also having the ongoing running costs. A consortium of 10 businessmen each put in £10k.

So its doable, but it all depends on who the creditors are and whether they want to play ball.