: Wed May 27, 2009 11:35 am  

gutterfax wrote:

Cool. Could you send me our most recent set of accounts, because I'd love to see how we fail to operate with £600k of gate receipts, £1,200,000 of SKY cash and all the other little bits and bobs like sponsorship money, replica shirts, beer and food sales etc........
1,276........that was the lowest crowd in SL in 2003 and only 2,088 turned up to see your last ever game in SL.....you really did bring a lot to SL that year with your average gates of 2,976.....
When I get another response that tries to dismiss London or any other expansion club, I will yet again return with more FACTS to p155 on your bonfire. That is of course if manxviking doesn't suddenly produce this season profit and loss account from TW2

Oh. by the way, if you didn't play GAA football or Hurling in Ireland, chance are you were English. There was a ban in place up until 1971 on GAA members even watching an English game, let alone playing one, so I would have thought that the current decline in GAA membership may well be down to the growth of those English games. I should know......I was the first pupil at my Rugby Union playing school to play county football (wicklow...so not that good) in 150 years of the schools history.

Er a team that loses 27 out of 28 is not very likely to get good support is it???
I dread to think how many you would get on such a season when you struggle to get 3K with a decent team this season?
Remember you are in London which has over 6 million people which includes thousands of Aussies living over here who love RL!
As for Sky money you sure its that much???
I aint, i am damn sure its less than that, especially as there are more clubs in SL this season so that will p%ss on your bonfire matey.

Smart ar$e

: Wed May 27, 2009 11:52 am  

Fax4Life wrote:

Er a team that loses 27 out of 28 is not very likely to get good support is it???
I dread to think how many you would get on such a season when you struggle to get 3K with a decent team this season?
Remember you are in London which has over 6 million people which includes thousands of Aussies living over here who love RL!
As for Sky money you sure its that much???
I aint, i am damn sure its less than that, especially as there are more clubs in SL this season so that will p%ss on your bonfire matey.

Smart ar$e

Now now......that's not very nice. Especially as we gave you the only 2 points you got that season before you had them removed for breaking the rules.

If we were to get a 27/28 loss record in a season, then I too would worry.....but we didn't, you did, so it's irrelevant. Supposition is not fact BTW

I am well aware that we are based in Middlesex, on the SW borders of Greater London, population just short of 8,500,000 and that there are loads of Anzacs in this city. Problem is, we also compete with a lot more for their attention. Also, when you say they love RL.......I would check your so called FACTS before blurting this out. AFL rules in London when it comes to the Australians. The Biggest Walkabout Pub sponsors 0 RL teams, but 1 Auzzie Rules team. Further proof of the apathy shown to RL by these so called RL Loving chaps whould be the total lack of turn out to meet and greet Manly Sea Eagles in Shepherds Bush......about 20 turned up. These are again, FACTS that can be checked, not sweeping statements about our target audience....HTH

As for SKY..........you may well be right, but until manxviking produces this years accounts from TW2, it is irrelevant. The fact is, the RFL monitor our finances all the time to ensure that we don't do what Branson did and effectively run the club into the ground. Good job we didn't break any existing rules when that happened eh

...so in short, my bonfire is alight and keeping me and my smart bum warm thank you very much.

: Wed May 27, 2009 2:43 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Cool. Could you send me our most recent set of accounts, because I'd love to see how we fail to operate with £600k of gate receipts, £1,200,000 of SKY cash and all the other little bits and bobs like sponsorship money, replica shirts, beer and food sales etc........
1,276........that was the lowest crowd in SL in 2003 and only 2,088 turned up to see your last ever game in SL.....you really did bring a lot to SL that year with your average gates of 2,976.....
When I get another response that tries to dismiss London or any other expansion club, I will yet again return with more FACTS to p155 on your bonfire. That is of course if manxviking doesn't suddenly produce this season profit and loss account from TW2

Oh. by the way, if you didn't play GAA football or Hurling in Ireland, chance are you were English. There was a ban in place up until 1971 on GAA members even watching an English game, let alone playing one, so I would have thought that the current decline in GAA membership may well be down to the growth of those English games. I should know......I was the first pupil at my Rugby Union playing school to play county football (wicklow...so not that good) in 150 years of the schools history.

There was a short report in the League Express last year, which said Harlequins lost £447,723 in the year ended November 2007. That however is a reduction on the £1,330,373 they lost the previous season. Your then Chief Executive Paul Brown said, "The great thing is that the licence system will allow us to move forward with more confidence."

This was when Harlequins were being propped up by Ian Lanigan’s money too. Nothing wrong with that, but there’s simply no substitute for bums on seats. In times like these, when high paying sponsors are hard to come by, bums on seats matter. Those shirt and merchandise sales are also increased. For every 1,000 fans you are short of a 10,000 average, it is said that you lose £100,000. This would mean harlequins are losing as much, if not more, than they are gaining in gate receipts. This puts them in the shaky situation of being reliant entirely on sponsorship and TV money to run the whole of the clubs' activities.

Even with the 600k of gate receipts, and £1,200,000 of SKY money, you are barely in a position to pay the players wages up to the salary cap. so, unless Lanigan is still dipping into his pockets for you, Harlequins must have one hell of a sponsorship deal to keep the club going.

Oh and…

gutterfax wrote:

1,276........that was the lowest crowd in SL in 2003 and only 2,088 turned up to see your last ever game in SL.....you really did bring a lot to SL that year with your average gates of 2,976.....

As you were answering manxviking, that is not a fact at all.

: Wed May 27, 2009 3:38 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Cool. Could you send me our most recent set of accounts, because I'd love to see how we fail to operate with £600k of gate receipts, £1,200,000 of SKY cash and all the other little bits and bobs like sponsorship money, replica shirts, beer and food sales etc........
1,276........that was the lowest crowd in SL in 2003 and only 2,088 turned up to see your last ever game in SL.....you really did bring a lot to SL that year with your average gates of 2,976.....
When I get another response that tries to dismiss London or any other expansion club, I will yet again return with more FACTS to p155 on your bonfire. That is of course if manxviking doesn't suddenly produce this season profit and loss account from TW2

Oh. by the way, if you didn't play GAA football or Hurling in Ireland, chance are you were English. There was a ban in place up until 1971 on GAA members even watching an English game, let alone playing one, so I would have thought that the current decline in GAA membership may well be down to the growth of those English games. I should know......I was the first pupil at my Rugby Union playing school to play county football (wicklow...so not that good) in 150 years of the schools history.

I said GAA survives perfecly well in a small country without the need to expand (it does - I follow Tipp FWIW). I said RL would survive without expansion beyond the M62 corridor - that is a fact (amateur game if nothing else, but the pro game will survive!). I never said I was against expansion and said I used to come and watch Fulham /London Crusaders. All solid facts my good man.

Pepe has answered the financial points. Your CE has stated in LE "we have to admit we need to get bigger attendances" - a clear reference to finances. FACT

I used to live in Wimbledon actually - FACT. I have never (and Pepe will back me on this) tried to put Harlequins down on any messageboard and never will; it isn't my style. I don't want RL to fail in London and have a soft spot for the Skolars too.

So stop being so sensitive and ostrich like. Quins need to get bums on seats. FACT. So do Widnes and Halifax FACT.

I tipped Quins to make the play-offs at the start of the year FACT based on OPINION.


I'm enjoying myself now


(But why is this being discussed on a Halifax forum )

: Wed May 27, 2009 3:53 pm  

manxviking wrote:

(But why is this being discussed on a Halifax forum )

Because this is THE place to be right now.

: Wed May 27, 2009 4:19 pm  

manxviking wrote:

I said GAA survives perfecly well in a small country without the need to expand (it does - I follow Tipp FWIW). I said RL would survive without expansion beyond the M62 corridor - that is a fact (amateur game if nothing else, but the pro game will survive!). I never said I was against expansion and said I used to come and watch Fulham /London Crusaders. All solid facts my good man.

good for you.....But Tipp are only good at Hurling when Cork can't be ar$ed that is

manxviking wrote:

Pepe has answered the financial points. Your CE has stated in LE "we have to admit we need to get bigger attendances" - a clear reference to finances. FACT.

May well be....but, we know we are in need of backing and bigger attendances.....good job IL has agreed to finance us for those periods mentioned and we have another benefactor as well....so no, finances are fine thanks......nice that you care though

manxviking wrote:

I used to live in Wimbledon actually - FACT. I have never (and Pepe will back me on this) tried to put Harlequins down on any messageboard and never will; it isn't my style. I don't want RL to fail in London and have a soft spot for the Skolars too.

FACT....I have never lived in wimbledon either....it's about 13 miles away from me...and I don't have a soft spot for the Skolars

manxviking wrote:

So stop being so sensitive and ostrich like. Quins need to get bums on seats. FACT. So do Widnes and Halifax FACT.

you REALLY NEED TO READ MY POSTS ON THAT SUBJECT ON THE QUINS BOARD

manxviking wrote:

I tipped Quins to make the play-offs at the start of the year FACT based on OPINION.

Good for you

manxviking wrote:

I'm enjoying myself now

Good for you again!

manxviking wrote:

(But why is this being discussed on a Halifax forum )

coz we have no fans on ours

: Wed May 27, 2009 4:51 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

good for you.....But Tipp are only good at Hurling when Cork can't be ar$ed that is


May well be....but, we know we are in need of backing and bigger attendances.....good job IL has agreed to finance us for those periods mentioned and we have another benefactor as well....so no, finances are fine thanks......nice that you care though


FACT....I have never lived in wimbledon either....it's about 13 miles away from me...and I don't have a soft spot for the Skolars


you REALLY NEED TO READ MY POSTS ON THAT SUBJECT ON THE QUINS BOARD


Good for you



Good for you again!


coz we have no fans on ours

That's a poor come back post. You couldn't pin him down as being a flattcapper, so your lost.

You were adamant that attendances weren't an issue in your earlier post, and now your past losses and failure to improve attendances have been pointed out by Your CE "we have to admit we need to get bigger attendances" - as pointed out by manxviking, we have a complete about face:

gutterfax wrote:

we know we are in need of backing and bigger attendances.

Despite having a wealthy backer, a club cannot be considered stable until it has an attendance figure that can, sustain it.

This is a struggle even for the likes of Saints and Bradford, and they get considerably higher attendances than Harlequins. Like manxviking has said, Widnes have similar attendance figures to Harlequins and also need to increase attendances, but we only have a first team wage bill of £400,000 to your £1.6Million bill. There goes your £1.2Million sky money and most of your gate receipts.

It's nothing for you to laugh about. It's probably the most important thing which you haven't got right yet, and there is a lot you are actually getting right down there. But with the attendance figures you are getting, I cannot see how your club is sustainable in SL for the long term. I take no joy in saying that, and your club will have no barring on whether or not my club get a licence next time round, and I know it would be great for RL to have a strong club down there, but it looks shakey without that support base in place and you should acknowledge that, rather than pretend it doesn't matter.

: Wed May 27, 2009 8:56 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Now now......that's not very nice. Especially as we gave you the only 2 points you got that season before you had them removed for breaking the rules.

If we were to get a 27/28 loss record in a season, then I too would worry.....but we didn't, you did, so it's irrelevant. Supposition is not fact BTW

I am well aware that we are based in Middlesex, on the SW borders of Greater London, population just short of 8,500,000 and that there are loads of Anzacs in this city. Problem is, we also compete with a lot more for their attention. Also, when you say they love RL.......I would check your so called FACTS before blurting this out. AFL rules in London when it comes to the Australians. The Biggest Walkabout Pub sponsors 0 RL teams, but 1 Auzzie Rules team. Further proof of the apathy shown to RL by these so called RL Loving chaps whould be the total lack of turn out to meet and greet Manly Sea Eagles in Shepherds Bush......about 20 turned up. These are again, FACTS that can be checked, not sweeping statements about our target audience....HTH

As for SKY..........you may well be right, but until manxviking produces this years accounts from TW2, it is irrelevant. The fact is, the RFL monitor our finances all the time to ensure that we don't do what Branson did and effectively run the club into the ground. Good job we didn't break any existing rules when that happened eh

...so in short, my bonfire is alight and keeping me and my smart bum warm thank you very much.

Not just smart bum but a total not very nice word too.
Sod off back to your bum chums in SL pal, they love you to death.

Edited by TS

: Wed May 27, 2009 9:06 pm  

manxviking wrote:

This is simply not true. I'd even argue the attempt to expand the sport when the RFL cannot fully finance it is much more likely to result in the death of the game. As Fax4Life says, Gaelic games survives quite happily and the only expansion is due to Irish emigres.

I have nothing against expansion per se and more to the point, used to watch Fulham as a student and my brother comes to watch Quins when he can.


But licensing was the wrong way forward and will result in nasty financial mishaps and could set back the development of our sport whilst all the best youngsters end up in RU (which has just strengthened its second tier and INCREASED P&R possibilities.

Opinions are fine - but base them on facts, not fiction.

I do wear a flat cap occasionally but the real hiome of pigeon fancying is actually Wolverhampton.

But the simple fact is London has failed to increase attendances and unless Quins do, your business model is unsustainable. Now that is a fact.

Even so, I do wish we would all stop bleating about what attendances there are at other clubs. Sniping at them won't bring Fax or Widnes closer to our common goal of SL.

The thing is WE in the heartland areas get the crowd figures rammed down our throats when they get a 'bloated crowd' to justify the existance of these clubs like its proof that it will work and that it doesn't in say Leigh or Halifax.
So it is an issue that will not go away as you also have to remember its not only these clubs home games that we are talking about but its also the poor crowds at their away games that is hurting the game, I accept its not their fans fault due to the huge distances but its not good for the gate and especially the atmosphere!

Ask yourself this who would the Chairman at a SL club rather have come to town, Hull KR or Celtic Crusaders?

: Thu May 28, 2009 8:19 am  

Fax4Life wrote:

The thing is WE in the heartland areas get the crowd figures rammed down our throats when they get a 'bloated crowd' to justify the existance of these clubs like its proof that it will work and that it doesn't in say Leigh or Halifax.
So it is an issue that will not go away as you also have to remember its not only these clubs home games that we are talking about but its also the poor crowds at their away games that is hurting the game, I accept its not their fans fault due to the huge distances but its not good for the gate and especially the atmosphere!

Ask yourself this who would the Chairman at a SL club rather have come to town, Hull KR or Celtic Crusaders?

Oh I agree - I mean Saints and Wire are missing out on big derby pay days as are Hudds with you boys (you will more than double attendances when you get back).

I was being a bit flippant with our London friend and got carried away.

Thing is you say anything construed as negative about an expansion club and they get all hyper-sensitive.