: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:09 pm  

If a club has the income, then let them compete. That's what I say.

Yes, the long term stability of gate income is great, butas has been witnessed by the likes of Bratrut, the fans will desert you if they aren't happy. They will find their natural level if they don't find a replacement income for the lack of gate receipts.

: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:16 pm  

I think that's the idea, Widnes currently run about 5 sides and Steve O'connor has weekly meetings with the RFL. It is my understanding that a couple of clubs will be allowed that little bit extra on the cap.


Note i said couple.

: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:47 pm  

With regard to championship 1 sides it seems most of them aren't really bothered about getting up the ladder to play in the top tier, why would they want to bring the more successful/ambitous clubs down to a level that makes it easier for them to compete with, instead of trying to improve there own club.

The ones who arent in super league will be able to regulate themselves and set limits on the amount that can be spent, without hampering the sides that want to progress.

The sad fact is now super league is a closed shop some of the once great clubs of our game have no chance of playing in the top tier because of politics. We will never see a Burnley FC situation in rugby league, where a team like Hunslet,Swinton etc... work their way through the leagues through hard work and perserverance and finally dine at the top table. Stuff of fairy tales

: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:18 pm  

Yob wrote:

If a club has the income, then let them compete. That's what I say.

Yes, the long term stability of gate income is great, but has has been witnessed by the likes of Bratrut, the fans will desert you if they aren't happy. They will find their natural level if they don't find a replacement income for the lack of gate receipts.

As will sugar daddys and sponsors especially if they have joined on the back of a sustained period of success on the pitch

Only a few clubs are ever in with a shot of winning anything in any given season

Those at the bottom of any league will suffer but localised loyalty is always going to be more sustainable than short term expectation of unrealistic promises

As for the salary cap it is set about right at the moment , to now start to mess about with it because Donny have proved to be unsustainable in the Championship at the Keepmoat would be daft

Unless of course you believe Pepe's conspiracy theory

: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:40 pm  

I am getting more and more disinterested in the Pro game and that is mainly due to the pillox at the RFL! They should be helping ALL clubs and each team should be under the same cap as the rest- I fail to see why teams cant be capped that they can only spend say 60% of income on players. The rest must be used on such things as developing the club in the local community and developing the stadium and staying in the black. By capping teams under a set amount it does little to encourage clubs to push themselves to bring more money in nor does it reward teams who are wanting to push themselves. Why should Widnes for example be held back to the likes of Workington, Gateshead and Doncaster? If teams do not want to be in Championship then bugger off back to Championship 1! Really the RFL are ruining our sport. Never would I have thought that the game would be so selfish like it is now

: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:46 pm  

The Lucky Black Cat wrote:

I am getting more and more disinterested in the Pro game and that is mainly due to the pillox at the RFL! They should be helping ALL clubs and each team should be under the same cap as the rest- I fail to see why teams cant be capped that they can only spend say 60% of income on players. The rest must be used on such things as developing the club in the local community and developing the stadium and staying in the black. By capping teams under a set amount it does little to encourage clubs to push themselves to bring more money in nor does it reward teams who are wanting to push themselves. Why should Widnes for example be held back to the likes of Workington, Gateshead and Doncaster? If teams do not want to be in Championship then bugger off back to Championship 1! Really the RFL are ruining our sport. Never would I have thought that the game would be so selfish like it is now

While there is a finite cap there is also an income based cap as well

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:35 am  

Starbug wrote:

As for the salary cap it is set about right at the moment , to now start to mess about with it because Donny have proved to be unsustainable in the Championship at the Keepmoat would be daft

Unless of course you believe Pepe's conspiracy theory

As conspiracy theories go the evidence is pretty damning.

Celtic already have been fast-tracked through this league. No sooner are they out than Toulouse are introduced. Then the RFL have openly stated that they will be looking to introduce an Irish or Scottish club soon.

Lowering the salary cap would make it much easier to throw an expansion club in to the Championship and have it compete with the top clubs from the word go. It effectively hamstrings those clubs that can afford the current salary cap, and makes it harder for them to recruit a squad which could then go on to compete in SL, with just a few additions. It is making the gap wider between the lower leagues and SL and this makes it even more difficult to put a bid in that could better that of a current SL club. Only a club which can field a team full of antipodeans in their first few years could prosper in SL in those conditions. That all but rules out the heartland clubs.

Call me an old cynic but....

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:13 pm  

Lowering the Salary Cap could jeopardise the income of some of the SL players who are dropping to the Championship (and making it more exciting at the same time) to take up other careers for when they retire.

With a reduced spending limit, what do you do, get a high cost ex-SL player or a low cost unexperienced youngster?

We all want youth to come through, but we all want competitive teams too.

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:41 pm  

Pepe wrote:

That’s a good point, and you’re probably right. However, if a club really is struggling, They would surely have to drop them, or the whole credibility – such as it is – of the licence process comes into question. This will open up the possibility of legal action, despite the signing of an agreement not to by all clubs applying. The RFL still have a duty to assess all the applications fairly and legally. I’m pretty sure that deciding these things entirely on location would be a breach of EU rules, and that’s where any case would probably end up.


That’s a great idea, but unfortunately not on the agenda. It seems to me that Sky may stipulate that any money they give to the RFL goes to the SL clubs, so that those clubs can exclusively recruit the best players for the main competition they broadcast.

The Championship coverage is merely an after-thought and the RFL get nothing for the rights to broadcast it. If the RFL were to give the Championship clubs half a million each fron the SL pot and keep the salary cap at £400,000, it would enable these clubs to run academy set ups and make demotion from SL less disastrous for the demoted club. It would actually make the Championship a viable league in it’s own right as well.

Sadly this will not happen as expansion clubs also require every penny of that money in order to stay and compete in SL with low crowds.


Not for the foreseeable future. Although I cannot rule it out in 15-20 years time, if things turn out even worse than I expect.

they did it with the crusaders what else did they have other than location.

although i would like to think we have a chance of super league in 2012 i feel that toulouse will get a place just based on the location and it will be between Widnes, Leigh( if they dont go dow this year) and Barrow and Halifax but you and Basrrow have the early advantage being in the northern rail cup final.

: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:18 pm  

faxtastic wrote:

they did it with the crusaders what else did they have other than location.

They were not challenged by any club left out, this time. That situation may well change next time. The quote below is damning evidence that the whole process was a fix from the start.
"I was approached in 2004 to start up a club that was capable of getting into Super League by 2009," said Samuel.

faxtastic wrote:

although i would like to think we have a chance of super league in 2012 i feel that toulouse will get a place just based on the location and it will be between Widnes, Leigh( if they dont go dow this year) and Barrow and Halifax but you and Basrrow have the early advantage being in the northern rail cup final.

You could be right, but I think they will be challenged in court in the next round of licences, by some clubs. I don’t care about the agreement they have to sign in order to put in a bid. The RFL still have to run the process fairly and legally. Choosing a club almost entirely on location may not be an option next time.

We’ll just have to see what happens and if any club has the balls to take them on. After the next round of licences, I reckon there’ll be nothing to lose doing so. Because if you don't get in then you never will anyway.