: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:31 pm  

Probably the reason is because they are full time. At the end of the day it showed when Martin Hall came to our club we still carried on picking up quality players who prefered to be part time as they had jobs they did not want to give up. Well people say Widnes has money but they do not get Super League salary cap and so they must be left surely with recruiting the sort of players who cannot do anything else but play rugby but are not good enough any more for Super League and are not the best in this league either.

: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:35 pm  

The simple fact is we need to reach a final in the next 2 years and that's us done. If we maintain our crowds and off the field structure then we should be in super league by 2012. If we fail this year then i expect another flurry of signings next year from which Cullen will hand pick and hopefully get it right. Every team also has injuries to contend with but we have had a regular 6 out all year which hasnt helped our cause, quite a few are now returning and i expect a different Widnes side in another month.

: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:44 pm  

-VIKINGMAN- wrote:

The simple fact is we need to reach a final in the next 2 years and that's us done. If we maintain our crowds and off the field structure then we should be in super league by 2012. If we fail this year then i expect another flurry of signings next year from which Cullen will hand pick and hopefully get it right. Every team also has injuries to contend with but we have had a regular 6 out all year which hasnt helped our cause, quite a few are now returning and i expect a different Widnes side in another month.

Sorry mods as I know this is going off topic but Viking Man I`m sure somone told me you had traveled to the Self Assisted Suicide Clinic in Austria.What hapened I am glad to see you changed your mind the boards just would`nt be the same without you.?

: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:45 pm  

The fact you had had a nine point deduction,does not change the fact that you struggled against all the teams I stated. You were not a bad side last year and you are not this season, but believe me, as a supporter who watches a lot of teams in this division, you are no better than a lot of other teams. I understand that you have a rich history and nobody loved watching your side more than me in the late eighties and early nineties, when you had Tait, Dowd, Currier, Wright, Offiah, Myler, Hulme, Sorensen, Mackenzie, Grima,Koloto,Eyres, Hulme etc. I understand that you are a glamorous club and that you are full time etc and it must be frustrating being a Widnes fan right now, but I just don't personally feel that many people are realistic about your team right now. It is not underachieving. It is doing what I expect of it, based on your players. You will have good and bad days this season, just like many other clubs. I am an impartial observer who has watched a hell of a lot of rugby over the last thirty years or so. I have seen some very good Widnes teams and I think you are a good club, but your team this year really is not that good(or bad). You have to realize that all teams throughout the league have had plenty of injuries this season. It is unlikely that there will ever be a point in the season when Widnes have all their men fit. That is the nature of the sport. You cannot continually make excuses like this. All clubs must deal with injuries on a weekly basis.

: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:52 pm  

etoile1 wrote:

The fact you had had a nine point deuction,does not change the fact that you struggled against all the teams I stated. You were not a bad side last year and you are not this season, but believe me, as a supporter who watches a lot of teams in this division, you are no better than a lot of other teams. I understand that you have a rich history and nobody loved watching your side more than me in the late eighties and early nineties, when you had Tait, Dowd, Currier, Wright, Offiah, Myler, Hulme, Sorensen, Mackenzie, Grima,Koloto,Eyres, Hulme etc. I understand that you are a glamorous club and that you are full time etc and it must be frustrating being a Widnes fan right now, but I just don't personally feel that many people are realistic about your team right now. It is not underachieving. It is doing what I expect of it, based on your players. You will have good and bad days this season, just like many other clubs. I am an impartial observer who has watched a hell of a lot of rugby over the last thirty years or so. I have seen some very good Widnes teams and I think you are a good club, but your team this year really is not that good(or bad)

At what point of the 'building a squad from scratch' did you not get?


You are correct in saying there are a lot of good teams in this division and right at this moment Halifax are the team to beat along with Barrow. The rest including us are chasing. Leigh IMO are a mid table team and we at the moment are vastly underachieveing, perhaps team spirit is an issue or perhaps we have the new coach syndrome were it will take a good few weeks for things to settle down. We have good players at our disposal who should be doing better than they are and i am as frustrated as hell as to why we are not clicking. I do however have faith that it will come right, that doesnt mean we are going to to blow everyone away it just means that we will be right by the end of the season IMO.

: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:09 pm  

I understand that you had to build up a squad last year. You retained Beswick, Smith, Gaskell, Dodd and added some decent players to them. I fully understand this and that Widnes are a decent team. However, I constantly read what a good team you were last season in the rugby press and on various forums. I remember reading in the trade press that you should be awarded a franchise ahead of the likes of Leigh, due to the quality of your squad. I am not saying that you thought this, but take it fom me, I had to hear and read how you were a very talented squad of players all season. It is simply my opinon, that you were not then and you are not now and I was puzzled by the hype that surrounded you based on your playing squad. You must understand me being puzzled by the comments in the rugby press when I kew that Leigh had beaten you three times last season. You may have recognised that you were not that great last season and credit to you for that, but many people didn't share your opinion.

: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:16 pm  

etoile1 wrote:

I understand that you had to build up a squad last year. You retained Beswick, Smith, Gaskell, Dodd and added some decent players to them. I fully understand this and that Widnes are a decent team. However, I constantly read what a good team you were last season in the rugby press and on various forums. I remember reading in the trade press that you should be awarded a franchise ahead of the likes of Leigh, due to the quality of your squad. I am not saying that you thought this, but take it fom me, I had to hear and read how you were a very talented squad of players all season. It is simply my opinon, that you were not then and you are not now and I was puzzled by the hype that surrounded you based on your playing squad. You must understand me being puzzled by the comments in the rugby press when I kew that Leigh had beaten you three times last season. You may have recognised that you were not that great last season and credit to you for that, but many people didn't share your opinion.

I havent once said we were great last year, We have appeared in numerous grand finals over the past few years without winning any except the Northern rail cup. I suppose this is what the press pick up on, and they seemed to think we were hard done by for a franchise as did we the fans. If they stated we were great on the pitch then so be it

: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:16 am  

-VIKINGMAN- wrote:

The simple fact is we need to reach a final in the next 2 years and that's us done. If we maintain our crowds and off the field structure then we should be in super league by 2012. If we fail this year then i expect another flurry of signings next year from which Cullen will hand pick and hopefully get it right. Every team also has injuries to contend with but we have had a regular 6 out all year which hasnt helped our cause, quite a few are now returning and i expect a different Widnes side in another month.

And I think you will. Like you say your stadium, crowds (at the mo) and off field structure should see you into super league next time.

However by the time the next round of applications come round there could be Fax, Widnes, Leigh, Donny, Fev and more all in the same position. Plus the RL well no doubt already their mind made up about one team and they are extremely unlikely to remove Celtic or quins no matter how poorly they are doing.

: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:26 am  

I admire Widnes for the crowds that they get and they have a nice little stadium, like some others in this league. I understand that every club in this league needs ambition and I think it stinks that the Super League have shut up shop. However, now it is clear that there is no chance for any team in this league to gain promotion,you really should IMO concentrate on promoting your own league and enjoy what is, in my opinion, a very good comp. I like the way you seem to do this on this forum. I honestly believe there will be no promotion in three years time either and that your clubs should break away instead of being at the beck and call of the fat cats at the RFL. Make your own league the envy of others. Every Super League team now contains on average about eight foreign players and that is why there is so much talent in this league. Years ago , many of your players would be plying their trade in the higher echelons of the game, but now their place is being taken by an overseas man. I love foreign players being part of our game over here, but the sheer volume of them, is ridiculous. This season, I admire Leigh, because in virtually all their games, they have taken to the field without any foreigners and have proved that you can be reasonably successful when doing this. Yes. They do not have a lot of cash to splash anyway, but they were on the verge of signing a good stand off from Canterbury Bulldogs, but it fell through and they have left it at that. It is IMO all wrong. A large chunk of the best British talent is playing in the lower divisions, when they should be playing at the highest level and thus would be more prepared to face the Aussies and Kiwis. I understand that it would be extremely difficult to break away and form a stronger league than Super League, obviously due to them having all the Sky TV money, but it is just a dream I have. The Super League want your clubs grovelling to them and want you to be totally at their mercy and this really frustrates me. Forget them, for now at least and enjoy this comp. Sorry that this has drifted off topic.

: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:42 am  

etoile1 wrote:

I admire Widnes for the crowds that they get and they have a nice little stadium, like some others in this league. I understand that every club in this league needs ambition and I think it stinks that the Super League have shut up shop. However, now it is clear that there is no chance for any team in this league to gain promotion,you really should IMO concentrate on promoting your own league and enjoy what is, in my opinion, a very good comp. I like the way you seem to do this on this forum. I honestly believe there will be no promotion in three years time either and that your clubs should break away instead of being at the beck and call of the fat cats at the RFL. Make your own league the envy of others. Every Super League team now contains on average about eight foreign players and that is why there is so much talent in this league. Years ago , many of your players would be plying their trade in the higher echelons of the game, but now their place is being taken by an overseas man. I love foreign players being part of our game over here, but the sheer volume of them, is ridiculous. This season, I admire Leigh, because in virtually all their games, they have taken to the field without any foreigners and have proved that you can be reasonably successful when doing this. Yes. They do not have a lot of cash to splash anyway, but they were on the verge of signing a good stand off from Canterbury Bulldogs, but it fell through and they have left it at that. It is IMO all wrong. A large chunk of the best British talent is playing in the lower divisions, when they should be playing at the highest level and thus would be more prepared to face the Aussies and Kiwis. I understand that it would be extremely difficult to break away and form a stronger league than Super League, obviously due to them having all the Sky TV money, but it is just a dream I have. The Super League want your clubs grovelling to them and want you to be totally at their mercy and this really frustrates me. Forget them, for now at least and enjoy this comp. Sorry that this has drifted off topic.

Got to give you a round of applause for this post.Would love people to wake up and make this League the best it can be.When you think the non-Super League clubs far outway thier SuperLeague counterparts but when our reps` leave the RFL meetings we seem to be left with the scraps all the time.The reason is because the RFL have us all chasing the Super League dream all the time.When they all voted for the non relegation bit why did not the non Super League clubs get together and demand our league had a great deal more money put in or another cup to play for.I am not saying I wouldn`t want to be in Super League I would but the ones in the lower leagues should not be looked upon as merely feeder clubs for Soooper Dooooper League.