Re: Grim at Salford : Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:41 pm  

littlerich wrote:

Good read that Red League.

How many more clubs are being run badly? Not that there's much anyone can do about it. I have applauded the Koukash intervention elsewhere and my dismay is levelled at the franchise system in its current form, not Salford or Bradford or Wakefield.

I may be wrong but I'm certain that SL cannot continue as it is for much longer.

Exactly, all we can do is keep turning up and supporting our club as we are doing and that's another point.
I know a lot of people that are supporting Fax and it is the same at other clubs because it is their club.
If our own club were to go then many would walk away from the game for good.

It has allready been said the frustration, dismay, anger or whatever you call it is with the people in charge and what is happening to our game under their stewardship, not any club or their supporters.

At least we have had some good games in the Championship over the last few years and it will be the same this year.

I am under no illusion, if it were Fax in Super League the same problems would apply to us, it's just that we would like a chance to get there and at the moment that is being denied.

Fair play in sport???

Re: Grim at Salford : Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:53 pm  

I understand your pain but Halifax got theirselves into trouble back in 2004 and they didn't make the most of there first season in championship and get promoted straight back, Salford did this twice. Maybe if you returned straight back you might of been able to set your stall in SL and get one of those franchises, it seems from
An outsider Halifax seemed to be in free fall and didn't recover, the RFL couldn't take a chance on a team that couldn't do the business in the lower leagues. Sorry if that's offensive but that's how I and people not involved in Halifax see it.

Re: Grim at Salford : Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:05 pm  

RED LEAGUE wrote:

You say Salford will p1ss it all up the wall but when you say that are you going off the current owner and board or the new owners? We will have Andrew Chalmers ed farish and Neil Lowe on the new management team pretty big names in the RL world and people who have managed huge RL clubs at the top. I personally think they'll do a good job.

As I said, it depends on how your new owner goes about things, you quote 3 names that have achieved what exactly? Theres only Neil Lowe I've heard of before

Re: Grim at Salford : Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:37 am  

The RFL are always going to save the SL clubs, whichever one it may be.

They have to. There are no clubs in the championships capable of replacing a failed SL club. What an admission that would be for the RFL to have to make. That whilst they were focussing all their efforts on a failing elite league the rest of the game has gone to rack and ruin.

We could learn from the RFU here. Hetherington has tried to sell them the idea of licencing which they've rejected out of hand and are looking at selling naming rights for Twickers and putting the money into developing lower leagues to increase player production and allow for P&R to stop the competition becoming stale. Sounds good eh?

Bet the RFU think Hetherington is an odious little man too!

Re: Grim at Salford : Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:22 am  

It comes down to a lot of things being in place that's why the licencing and criteria systems were first thought up.

Problem was it has proved unsubstainable for the Super League clubs previously mentioned.

The massive uneven distributuion of funds in Super Leagues favour created a gap that wide that could not be crossed by any club trying to get into the top competion.

This made promotion and relegation far more serious that just going up and down.

In the old format it produce the jo jo situation.

How could the newly promoted club or clubs suddenly adjust to a full time enviroment of Super League in just one season with the new demands involved.

Just one of the problems was the recruitment of players which in many cases meant most of the team because the gap in playing standards was huge.

Most teams could not do this in the first year meaning they went straight back down within a season resulting in losing all the money and investment involved.

The solution was said to be to give the newly promoted clubs more time to adjust hence the birth of a licencing system for 3 or 4 years.
With the expansion area clubs included and favoured in the same thinking.

Word soon got round that promotion and relegation was to be scrapped and the implications sunk in that if you were relegated when this happened it would be for a good period of time maybe for ever.

The clubs at the bottom of Super League that were in danger of relegation spent heavily on trying to avoid this fate.

Of course someone still had to finnish bottom and for the relegated side all this money was lost and left them heavily it debt that could not be repaid.

The other clubs involved in the survival dog fight who had avoided the drop were left in debt because of overspending to avoid it.
Even though they stayed within the salary cap spending near to or up to the limit was too much for them.

The salary cap is flawed in the sence that it favours those that can spend to the limit, even now there is a big miss match between the top clubs and the bottom clubs in Super League resulting in the top clubs cleaning up the on the field prizes because they can pay top dollar and sign up all the best players.

Even sucess can be a poisened challice if you get carried away by it and fail to manage your club correctly.
Bradford for example came out of the chasing pack and spent heavily on player recruitment under the leadership of Chris Caisley and it paid off when they started winning all the trophies.

This lead to thousands of extra supporters coming to watch them.
Problem was now to maintain this on the field success because as soon as they started to lose games and have a less than winning season many of the new faces stopped going.

The buget had been set for around the 17 to 18 thousand mark which they got in the glory years but only 14 to 15 were turning up when they started to lose a few games leaving a serious shortfall in money that was unsustainable.
Why do you think Mr Caisely got out when he did.

The problems in the game largely revolve around the lack of money and the lack of leadership that is capable of coming up with any strategy to deal with the difficult times the game has and is facing.
Life in Super League largely revolves around the so called big 3 or 4 clubs and life outside Super League allthough it exists is quickly becoming life on another planet that could slowly die off.

Re: Grim at Salford : Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:32 pm  

RED LEAGUE wrote:

Little rich stop being a bitter and twisted person the teams that currently in SL are the teams the RFL will stick with and try and develop, who in the championship would be benifishial to SL? Featherstone a club crowded by RL teams who's fans from a past era now support either Leeds cas or Wakefield. Or maybe your native Halifax? A club whos fan base was basically picked pocketed by Bradford bulls. Or Leigh a little town in WIGAN who wouldn't even have the potential to get big crowds. Anymore? Fact is the teams currently in SL are there for the long hall they are all needed ro grow the game of RL, for instance why would the RFL bother to save Salfords skin if we didn't have potential to bring something they want? A successful mancheter RL team the RFL have wanted this for years and now finally after finding a man capable of doing so will not let go for love nor money!

What are you on?

Re: Grim at Salford : Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:15 pm  

Currently on my sofa on rlfans. You?

Re: Grim at Salford : Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:41 pm  

RED LEAGUE wrote:

One thing that all those clubs had in commen was bad management who were riddled with debt. Now none of them will be. Even if we has promotion and relegation those club would still have gone near enough under, it's the fanancial climate the country finds itself in that's the problem. I know the very thing that done it for Salford and that is being a tennant in a stadium we do not own, our crazy previous chief executive drew up a business plan based on 8000 supporters a week just to break even!. A figure we'd never attract unless we were winning games,not being slaughtered like we were last year, obviously with his STUPID business plan falling to peices they started loaning money, money they could never afford to pay back. And up until last week is how Salford found themselves skint in debt hopeless! Now our knight in shining armour has come in with a miles better business model for a start hes planning to buy the stadium so we'd make the profits of it not peel holdings or Salford council and too he will attract major income from planned business ventures on the stadium site, a proposed hotel, gym, casino conserts and major sponserships from his racing buddies the guy is a self made multi millionaire who wins at everything. Why do you think McManus introduced him to RL? Ill tell you why because RL wouldn't be in the mess it is now if more high profile people like Dr Kaukash were involved in the game instead of the chancers we have currently.

Are you referring to Jack Wilkinson here?
Also you assume that Salford Council will sell the stadium its a community stadium for the city of Salford and even if they did sell it why should this guy just give it to Salford RLFC? You also forget to mention you are joint tenants with Sale Sharks RUFC

Re: Grim at Salford : Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:14 pm  

Fax4Life wrote:

RED LEAGUE wrote:

One thing that all those clubs had in commen was bad management who were riddled with debt. Now none of them will be. Even if we has promotion and relegation those club would still have gone near enough under, it's the fanancial climate the country finds itself in that's the problem. I know the very thing that done it for Salford and that is being a tennant in a stadium we do not own, our crazy previous chief executive drew up a business plan based on 8000 supporters a week just to break even!. A figure we'd never attract unless we were winning games,not being slaughtered like we were last year, obviously with his STUPID business plan falling to peices they started loaning money, money they could never afford to pay back. And up until last week is how Salford found themselves skint in debt hopeless! Now our knight in shining armour has come in with a miles better business model for a start hes planning to buy the stadium so we'd make the profits of it not peel holdings or Salford council and too he will attract major income from planned business ventures on the stadium site, a proposed hotel, gym, casino conserts and major sponserships from his racing buddies the guy is a self made multi millionaire who wins at everything. Why do you think McManus introduced him to RL? Ill tell you why because RL wouldn't be in the mess it is now if more high profile people like Dr Kaukash were involved in the game instead of the chancers we have currently.

Are you referring to Jack Wilkinson here?
Also you assume that Salford Council will sell the stadium its a community stadium for the city of Salford and even if they did sell it why should this guy just give it to Salford RLFC? You also forget to mention you are joint tenants with Sale Sharks RUFC

Ay??? do you know actually what you are talking about?
For starters it's John wilkinson not Jack wilkinson number two of course Salford city council will sell their share, they are skint to high heaven laying hundreds of people off each month, so they could do with the money, number three the stadium originally was meant for Salford city Reds alone not a community stadium. four if they dont sell to marwan Kaukash and Salford go into administration that's millions of pounds in loans they have given to the reds down the drain and adding to that its looking like sale will be relegated too they to wouldn't be able to pay the lease with the massive drop in funding being out of the priemership, and therefor we'll have a shiny new stadium sat there as a bleeding massive white elephant with nobody using it. If Dr Kaukash buys it it will be used all year round and money made will help the reds become a force in super league which is good for Salford as a city and also the manchester rugby league scene aswel.

Stop being so ignorant and jealous and think of the bigger picture here!

Re: Grim at Salford : Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:14 pm  

RED LEAGUE wrote:

Ay??? do you know actually what you are talking about?
For starters it's John wilkinson not Jack wilkinson number two of course Salford city council will sell their share, they are skint to high heaven laying hundreds of people off each month, so they could do with the money, number three the stadium originally was meant for Salford city Reds alone not a community stadium. four if they dont sell to marwan Kaukash and Salford go into administration that's millions of pounds in loans they have given to the reds down the drain and adding to that its looking like sale will be relegated too they to wouldn't be able to pay the lease with the massive drop in funding being out of the priemership, and therefor we'll have a shiny new stadium sat there as a bleeding massive white elephant with nobody using it. If Dr Kaukash buys it it will be used all year round and money made will help the reds become a force in super league which is good for Salford as a city and also the manchester rugby league scene aswel.

Stop being so ignorant and jealous and think of the bigger picture here!

You arrogant sod what you on about me being jealous of what exactly stop trying to be like League Freak and twist what I said! You are the one who is ignorant pal, yer okay I got Mr Wilkinson's first name wrong but you slag a guy off who was MR SALFORD for donkey years sticking with you through thick and thin basically keeping the club going, second a Council would need to justify why it would sell a stadium built for the COMMUNITY (the clue is in the title) as PUBLIC money has subsidised its construction so Salford council tax payers might not be happy that an individual who owns some racehorses might take it over, you have to justify the sale as you cannot just 'give it away' cos Salford RFLC's new owner wants it.