Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:48 pm  

Starbug wrote:

While I dont disagree that Mr Wood is hugely culpable in part for many of the sports current problems , the clubs generally are poorly run with little if any idea's on how to improve themselves

Instead they tend to be lazy and all too quick to blame anything they can to excuse their own failings

cant disagree with that apart from the main thing holding us and many back is the chance to move forward with the main example no promotion which means no interest and as u said in an earlier post "if a club cant gain fans when winning how it suppose to when getting stuffed? well same answer because we arent winning as there is nothing to win when u show your the best in this league all u get is money that doesnt even cover a years wages

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:59 pm  

lmw wrote:

cant disagree with that apart from the main thing holding us and many back is the chance to move forward with the main example no promotion which means no interest and as u said in an earlier post "if a club cant gain fans when winning how it suppose to when getting stuffed? well same answer because we arent winning as there is nothing to win when u show your the best in this league all u get is money that doesnt even cover a years wages

I am no fan of the licence system and agree it is a hurdle for ambitious Championship clubs, but ultimatly it is what we have, but to build it up as THE reason any club cannot improve itself is just to make another excuse, dont waste energy fighting what you cannot change, find a way to improve what you can, start with a blank piece of paper and work from there

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:09 pm  

Starbug wrote:

I am no fan of the licence system and agree it is a hurdle for ambitious Championship clubs, but ultimatly it is what we have, but to build it up as THE reason any club cannot improve itself is just to make another excuse, dont waste energy fighting what you cannot change, find a way to improve what you can, start with a blank piece of paper and work from there

just working from stats that any clubs heading for promtion can build there fan base on results alone and i dont see another way (i hope im wrong) but all clubs that have gone up have done by the average increasing by results and they all had the chance to go up.
i beleive that if cas had come down and the following year they had no chance to go back up then their average would of fallen drasticly and stayed there until they were in again but this is fax's problem there was no chance to go back up and now by the time we have a team that wins more games than not the interest has died in them fans and it would revive only by the chance of really being promoted from gaining wins and going up

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:27 pm  

lmw wrote:

just working from stats that any clubs heading for promtion can build there fan base on results alone and i dont see another way (i hope im wrong) but all clubs that have gone up have done by the average increasing by results and they all had the chance to go up.
i beleive that if cas had come down and the following year they had no chance to go back up then their average would of fallen drasticly and stayed there until they were in again but this is fax's problem there was no chance to go back up and now by the time we have a team that wins more games than not the interest has died in them fans and it would revive only by the chance of really being promoted from gaining wins and going up

And then when you do go up and take some beatings those ' revived ' fans just dissapear again, this is THE whole point, waiting, wanting, hoping, praying that those ' ex ' fans will come back just because you can include ' SL club ' on your badge is partly what is holding clubs back, let it go, let them go, they,ve left, gone, never to return

Start again, ask yourself why did you start watching your club? , what was it that made it
special ? , how can you recreate that feeling? , which part of your community can you target? , which part isnt already tainted with the preducise and cynicism ?

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:38 pm  

yes all very true but i look at hull kr as an example to what can be achieved. they built up by winning games gaining fans old and new on the way to promotion and they have had a good stint. i agree with what you say but what is the asnwer then because if its the way you repeatly say on these forums why isnt anyone trying it

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:03 pm  

lmw wrote:

yes all very true but i look at hull kr as an example to what can be achieved. they built up by winning games gaining fans old and new on the way to promotion and they have had a good stint. i agree with what you say but what is the asnwer then because if its the way you repeatly say on these forums why isnt anyone trying it

Rovers have always had a large dormant fan base waiting for top flight RL and the challenge of competing with FC

I think many club owners still believe that the sport side of the club can finance the business side of the club, it can't, lets look at our cousins from down under, at most clubs the sport/match derived revenue is a minute % of what they run the clubs on, they found new revenue streams unconnected to the playing of a RL match to finance their growth

So, it needs clubs to separate the ' sport ' from the ' business '

Why dont they do it? , well , I suppose it isnt what they got involved for in the first place, its not ' sexy ' , its boring, its business ( something most of them already have ) , tgey got involved as a hobby, something different to the pursuit of fortune, but it needs that to become tge focus, not a ' right of passage' , not an ego trip on who has the most money to tip into a bottomless pit

You have to step back ( the club owners, not the fans ) and see an entertainment business, not a sports club, and act accordingly , only then will clubs both at our level and SL start to grow and prosper

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:10 pm  

Starbug wrote:

Rovers have always had a large dormant fan base waiting for top flight RL and the challenge of competing with FC

I think many club owners still believe that the sport side of the club can finance the business side of the club, it can't, lets look at our cousins from down under, at most clubs the sport/match derived revenue is a minute % of what they run the clubs on, they found new revenue streams unconnected to the playing of a RL match to finance their growth

So, it needs clubs to separate the ' sport ' from the ' business '

Why dont they do it? , well , I suppose it isnt what they got involved for in the first place, its not ' sexy ' , its boring, its business ( something most of them already have ) , tgey got involved as a hobby, something different to the pursuit of fortune, but it needs that to become tge focus, not a ' right of passage' , not an ego trip on who has the most money to tip into a bottomless pit


You have to step back ( the club owners, not the fans ) and see an entertainment business, not a sports club, and act accordingly , only then will clubs both at our level and SL start to grow and prosper

maybe im wrong but i swear they had crowds less than 2k 2 year before they started to build momentum for promotion

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:16 pm  

Starbug wrote:

Rovers have always had a large dormant fan base waiting for top flight RL and the challenge of competing with FC

I think many club owners still believe that the sport side of the club can finance the business side of the club, it can't, lets look at our cousins from down under, at most clubs the sport/match derived revenue is a minute % of what they run the clubs on, they found new revenue streams unconnected to the playing of a RL match to finance their growth

So, it needs clubs to separate the ' sport ' from the ' business '

Why dont they do it? , well , I suppose it isnt what they got involved for in the first place, its not ' sexy ' , its boring, its business ( something most of them already have ) , tgey got involved as a hobby, something different to the pursuit of fortune, but it needs that to become tge focus, not a ' right of passage' , not an ego trip on who has the most money to tip into a bottomless pit

You have to step back ( the club owners, not the fans ) and see an entertainment business, not a sports club, and act accordingly , only then will clubs both at our level and SL start to grow and prosper

i dont disagree with anything u say i just think the biggest thing is simply to be given a chance and build from there.
one thing you need is an investor, something i think howard posner promised he could get the club but the only thing holding them back was super league status a bit like the new bulls club have been given and now allowed to build

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:33 pm  

lmw wrote:

maybe im wrong but i swear they had crowds less than 2k 2 year before they started to build momentum for promotion

As I said, a Dormant fan base waiting to be in a position to compete with another local club, in Hull you are either red or black and white and it is that historical rivalry that gave Rovers the initial boost, along with a few million from Mr Hudgell

Re: Grim at Salford : Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:48 pm  

Starbug wrote:

As I said, a Dormant fan base waiting to be in a position to compete with another local club, in Hull you are either red or black and white and it is that historical rivalry that gave Rovers the initial boost, along with a few million from Mr Hudgell

i guess what im saying is i feel us as a club can do that, build crowds with results as they did but only with promotion and now people have lost faith/interest in the game due to whats been happening. in fact my interest is now minimal, is it to do with results? obviously not as we do ok but i had more interest when we were crap but if we could have a run at it at the end of the season it kept hope and interest alive and we neally did it after neally being down to nl2 to going to cas in the semi final the following season is what its all about and gets people to the games.
i 1st realised how this is so wrong the second we won the grand final against fev in extra time with a drop goal, that should of been the best match feeling since our cup victory in 87 but i felt nothing really comparing it with results against say bradford and leeds beating them at the shay and away, i guess i just suddenly felt robbed of what we should of really earned that day and it really sunk in that this isnt what its about and walked away happy we beat fev in the final and won the best thing we could but its just not enough. and this is why we cant gain fans. and what i just said answers the question u raised on why we support the clubs we do and why we started going, to feel great on a day we win a game and right now that doesnt happen to its full potential.