Re: Liar, Liar ! : Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:10 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Absolutely stand by that comment - any religion that consider females less valuable than males is an issue for me, any religion that accepts honour killings as acceptable again is an issue for me. Any religion that thinks intimate physical relations between the same sex is punishable by death is also an issue for me - I am leaving that there.

You've not read the bible have you.

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:51 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Absolutely stand by that comment - any religion that consider females less valuable than males is an issue for me, any religion that accepts honour killings as acceptable again is an issue for me. Any religion that thinks intimate physical relations between the same sex is punishable by death is also an issue for me - I am leaving that there.

Have you taken a peek into the history of the Catholic religion or Church of England.
Granted they havent gone for honour killings but, they certainly dont treat women equally and let's not even go towards their exploits with young boys or young unmarried pregnant girls.

How about "castratos" in the Catholic church too and for what ??

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:43 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Have you taken a peek into the history of the Catholic religion or Church of England.
Granted they havent gone for honour killings but, they certainly dont treat women equally and let's not even go towards their exploits with young boys or young unmarried pregnant girls.

How about "castratos" in the Catholic church too and for what ??

All religion is man made and about power and control. Most of them, however, have at least tried to move on from the middle ages. Haven't seen many beheadings, stonings or homosexuals thrown off tall buildings in this country recently.

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:45 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You've not read the bible have you.

I don't anywhere in the bible where same sex relationships are punishable by death - I don't see any Christian country that practises that - maybe I'm wrong?

I don't think in the bible it suggests honour killing your daughter is not only allowed but positively encouraged - again perhaps I'm wrong.

Good job Monty Python didn't do a life of Brian on Mohammed - do you think Salman Rushdie was have got the same response if his book was about Christianity?

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:13 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I don't anywhere in the bible where same sex relationships are punishable by death - I don't see any Christian country that practises that - maybe I'm wrong?

I don't think in the bible it suggests honour killing your daughter is not only allowed but positively encouraged - again perhaps I'm wrong.

Good job Monty Python didn't do a life of Brian on Mohammed - do you think Salman Rushdie was have got the same response if his book was about Christianity?

Leviticus 20:13
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.'

This is the old testament though, and although homosexuality is never acceptable in Christianity, it is not punishable by death in the new testament.

As for honour killings... Again from the old testament:
Deuteronomy 22

20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Again, this wasn't really condoned in the new testament.

The fact is, all religions are usually violent and oppressive if followed orthodoxicly. Ask the Muslims in Myanmar if they think Buddhism is a peaceful religion for example. So it's not just as simple as saying one is any worse then any other, especially when there's so many other factors that motivates someone to do something.

It's also important to realise Islam is approximately 600 years 'younger' than Christianity, and at approximately the same point in Christian history the Spanish inquisition was taking place in Europe, so it doesn't necessarily mean Islam won't go through the same reforms as Christianity has. Having said that, it could be argued that those reforms were a result of social and economic changes, as opposed to religious modernisation.

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:16 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I don't anywhere in the bible where same sex relationships are punishable by death - I don't see any Christian country that practises that - maybe I'm wrong?

I don't think in the bible it suggests honour killing your daughter is not only allowed but positively encouraged - again perhaps I'm wrong.

Good job Monty Python didn't do a life of Brian on Mohammed - do you think Salman Rushdie was have got the same response if his book was about Christianity?

I think you're confusing where a country is in the march towards secularism and inherent problems with one religion more than another.

They're all terrible, all have deeply unpleasant and bloody pasts and I view with deep suspicion anyone who genuinely believes in them.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:21 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

They're all terrible, all have deeply unpleasant and bloody pasts and I view with deep suspicion anyone who genuinely believes in them.

Countries, religions or both?

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:57 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I think you're confusing where a country is in the march towards secularism and inherent problems with one religion more than another.

They're all terrible, all have deeply unpleasant and bloody pasts and I view with deep suspicion anyone who genuinely believes in them.

I completely agree re religion - Islam is particularly troublesome - you only have to look at recent events in Batley.

Tribal disagreements are far more aggressive - look in Rwanda, Middle East, Ethiopia - this is real and nothing to do with religion.

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:20 am  

Jack Burton wrote:

Leviticus 20:13
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.'

This is the old testament though, and although homosexuality is never acceptable in Christianity, it is not punishable by death in the new testament.

As for honour killings... Again from the old testament:
Deuteronomy 22

20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Again, this wasn't really condoned in the new testament.

The fact is, all religions are usually violent and oppressive if followed orthodoxicly. Ask the Muslims in Myanmar if they think Buddhism is a peaceful religion for example. So it's not just as simple as saying one is any worse then any other, especially when there's so many other factors that motivates someone to do something.

It's also important to realise Islam is approximately 600 years 'younger' than Christianity, and at approximately the same point in Christian history the Spanish inquisition was taking place in Europe, so it doesn't necessarily mean Islam won't go through the same reforms as Christianity has. Having said that, it could be argued that those reforms were a result of social and economic changes, as opposed to religious modernisation.

Both are Abrahamic religions but Christianity changed 1000 years ago - Islam it would appear is still stuck in the middle ages

Re: Liar, Liar ! : Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:02 pm  

Sadly, I believe that conflict is just part of what we are as humans. Religion, colour and geographic boundaries are just the excuses.