Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:51 pm  

Also had the Pfizer one. Same as reported from many others - arm ached for about 2 to 3 days. At night I had to sleep on the other side because it ached to lie on it, but during the day no real problems. My Mum had the same with Pfizer.

Dad had AstraZeneca. First day afterwards no symptoms, second day he felt like he had Covid for about 12 hours and had to lie in a darkened room, then had a miraculous recovery and was right as rain. Symptoms didn't even last 24 hours but he did feel rough.

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:01 am  

Me dad had the Pfizer and apart from a bit of discomfort with a sore arm no other problems, me mum on the other hand had the Astra Zeneca and it completely floored her for 2 days.

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:00 am  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

Yes stopped by the Indian government for their own population. It sounds the same as the EU who were heavily criticised by the government but not questioned by Johnson in respect of India probably because we wants a trade deal with them.
It would appear condemnation only stretches as far as the next trade deal when everything can be forgiven or forgotten.

There's politics aplenty in all of this.
Having said that The EU seem to be making a bit of a balls of their own vaccine program, too much in fighting and not enough getting on with the job and their bickering over the AZ vaccine has clearly added to their problems.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:37 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

There's politics aplenty in all of this.
Having said that The EU seem to be making a bit of a balls of their own vaccine program, too much in fighting and not enough getting on with the job and their bickering over the AZ vaccine has clearly added to their problems.

I don’t think it is really being run at the EU level? Individual member states may be doing poorly, and making some (imo) odd decisions, but mostly I think it is being rolled out at a national level. With some co-operation, I’m sure. But healthcare delivery is very heterogeneous across EU countries.

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:33 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

I don’t think it is really being run at the EU level? Individual member states may be doing poorly, and making some (imo) odd decisions, but mostly I think it is being rolled out at a national level. With some co-operation, I’m sure. But healthcare delivery is very heterogeneous across EU countries.

It is. But that doesn't fit with the right wing obsession with the EU, or their previous narrative that the EU was a controlling monster that over-ruled the nation states.

Painting the difficult problems various countries have faced as an EU thing therefore suits their purposes for a variety of reasons, not least that it distracts from the previously disastrous job the government had done throughout the pandemic.

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:02 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

It is. But that doesn't fit with the right wing obsession with the EU, or their previous narrative that the EU was a controlling monster that over-ruled the nation states.

Painting the difficult problems various countries have faced as an EU thing therefore suits their purposes for a variety of reasons, not least that it distracts from the previously disastrous job the government had done throughout the pandemic.

I think you are wrong with the first paragraph but spot on with the second.

Anyone who doesn't think the EU is the ultimate Big Brother with the most protectionist attitude of any major organisation then they are blind to the real EU.

Nobody can deny the handling of the earlier stages of the pandemic have been a disgrace - Boris and his cronies were too slow, weak and lacked any kind of coherent strategy. That can also be levelled at the NHS too.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:52 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I think you are wrong with the first paragraph but spot on with the second.

Anyone who doesn't think the EU is the ultimate Big Brother with the most protectionist attitude of any major organisation then they are blind to the real EU.

Nobody can deny the handling of the earlier stages of the pandemic have been a disgrace - Boris and his cronies were too slow, weak and lacked any kind of coherent strategy. That can also be levelled at the NHS too.

The EU is protectionist externally, in the same way as the US and other major economies. However, it has cut protectionism internally among member states substantially. So we gave up the external protection and internal ease of access to a very large and nearby market. You can make the small and nimble argument for new trade deals but because we have have gone full open doors/low tariffs for imports globally we haven’t got much to offer in trade negotiations. Why would other countries offer us better access when we have already given away the farm? We definitely can’t be accused of selfishly protecting our economic interests - whether that is down to generosity or stupidity is a matter of opinion.

Brexit wasn’t driven by economics though. A country is more than just its GDP, and I accept that the benefits, although intangible, are nonetheless real for many people. Unfortunately for me, it is stuff that I don’t value much personally and I don’t think is very healthy for us nationally, in an opiate of the masses kind of way.

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:11 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The EU is protectionist externally, in the same way as the US and other major economies. However, it has cut protectionism internally among member states substantially. So we gave up the external protection and internal ease of access to a very large and nearby market. You can make the small and nimble argument for new trade deals but because we have have gone full open doors/low tariffs for imports globally we haven’t got much to offer in trade negotiations. Why would other countries offer us better access when we have already given away the farm? We definitely can’t be accused of selfishly protecting our economic interests - whether that is down to generosity or stupidity is a matter of opinion.

Brexit wasn’t driven by economics though. A country is more than just its GDP, and I accept that the benefits, although intangible, are nonetheless real for many people. Unfortunately for me, it is stuff that I don’t value much personally and I don’t think is very healthy for us nationally, in an opiate of the masses kind of way.

I doesn't take a huge leap of faith to see a European super state controlled by the likes of Von der Leyen where by the rules are set from the centre by a host of unelected bureaucrats. The EU has been gradually moving from a free trade arrangements to super state. You only have to see the handling of the vaccine program and the impact it has had in France, Germany, Poland etc. A state where the biggest players manipulate the rules to best suit their particular needs.

Perhaps giving up your independence is a situation worth enduring to get access to the EU - you can't have both. Perhaps we need to be able to stand on our own two feet a bit more - it will definitely sharpen up our commercial endeavours over time.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:47 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I doesn't take a huge leap of faith to see a European super state controlled by the likes of Von der Leyen where by the rules are set from the centre by a host of unelected bureaucrats.

It is possible, and the EU is far from perfect. But we assess both the risk and the hazard differently. I think it is a smaller leap of faith to see this not happening. There are other hazards that concern me more (broadly, a continent-wide rise in far right populism) and that might mean that we actually do end up being better off out. However, for now the risk, while bigger than I’d like, remains small and so I didn’t see an urgent need to depart. But we have, so there you go!

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

The EU has been gradually moving from a free trade arrangements to super state. You only have to see the handling of the vaccine program and the impact it has had in France, Germany, Poland etc.

Okay, I may genuinely have missed something here. There seems to be some conception that there is a single EU vaccination program, that is to the detriment of efforts in individual member states. That isn’t the case, as I understand it. While national decision makers take advice from the EMA, after regulatory approval for which the EMA is entirely responsible, they make their decisions independently. For example the (imo strange) decisions to suspend use of the AZ vaccine were taken independently in some member states and in not others.

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

A state where the biggest players manipulate the rules to best suit their particular needs.

Gosh yes - it’d be terrible to live in a state where the wealthy and powerful exert their influence in pursuit of their best interests, exploiting the poor and disempowered as necessary. Fortunately, we live in the UK - home of fairness, where everybody’s voice weighs equally.

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Perhaps giving up your independence is a situation worth enduring to get access to the EU - you can't have both. Perhaps we need to be able to stand on our own two feet a bit more - it will definitely sharpen up our commercial endeavours over time.

Where do you see the greatest opportunities to sharpen? Why do you think they have been neglected to this point?

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:23 pm  

This stuff about worries about unelected bureaucrats, a centralised state and powerful actors manipulating the system.

It's amazing, even factoring in the lies that make people think this stuff is true about the EU, and their seemingly permanent myopia that they never take a look around over here and think, "wait a minute...."