Unions, are they evil? : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:17 pm  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19786471 Just wondered what people think the general opinion of unions are? The Labour party does try to distance itself from them as much as possible. However surely without them those lowly workers with very little power are at the mercy of their much more powerful bosses and can be exploited unfairly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19786471 Just wondered what people think the general opinion of unions are? The Labour party does try to distance itself from them as much as possible. However surely without them those lowly workers with very little power are at the mercy of their much more powerful bosses and can be exploited unfairly.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:19 pm  

You're asking that question on the Socialist Worker RLFans?

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:26 pm  

Unions are a menace in modern times. I'm sure they did some vitally important work in terms of protecting the workers within some industries, particularly mining and manufacturing. But beyond those much needed improvements in health and safety and conditions of work they serve less purpose. When there are disputes it seems they always take an irrational and extreme stance and cause even those within the unions to distance themselves from it. They also feel the need to justify their existence and the subscriptions people pay to be in them, jumping onto minor issues and throwing their weight around, purely so they are seen to be doing something. There is never a serious consideration of the actual issues the company faces either.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:28 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

You're asking that question on the Socialist Worker RLFans?

I know many on this site lean left, but maybe I should rephrase the question. What do posters on here think the general public's perception of unions are?

I can see that they are designed to protect the lowly workers from potential predator employers, but do they come across this way?

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:48 pm  

They are vital as a bulwark against the unbridled power of the employer compared to that of the employee.

However they too often let themselves down with stupid press releases that do nothing but reinforce the negative points that the Right would put about.
A good example being threats of General Strikes and threats of going on strike during the Olympics.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:00 am  

Him wrote:

They are vital as a bulwark against the unbridled power of the employer compared to that of the employee.

However they too often let themselves down with stupid press releases that do nothing but reinforce the negative points that the Right would put about.
A good example being threats of General Strikes and threats of going on strike during the Olympics.

Press releases are then spun by the media and it is usually they, rather than the unions, that project a negative image. Prime examples of this are the failure to report the positive impact that unions played in securing jobs in the UK automotive sector, particularly with GM and Tata

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:21 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Press releases are then spun by the media and it is usually they, rather than the unions, that project a negative image. Prime examples of this are the failure to report the positive impact that unions played in securing jobs in the UK automotive sector, particularly with GM and Tata

Absolutely.

It's also extraordinary just how many people seem to believe that an employer is absolutely always right. In every single situation imaginable.

Mind, the same people believe the lies they've been fed over the years about how every public service worker is lazy, couldn't find work elsewhere, are overpaid and so forth.

To the original question: Labour Party tries to distance itself from its own parent?

And back to spin and people: how come so many don't seem to realise or appreciate that most of the rights they enjoy today were won by trades unions? Are they going to give them up if unions themselves are apparently out of date and a waste of space in 'the modern world'?

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:24 am  

I am not a huge fan and often I see them as anti-business, in my industry they have cost more jobs than they have saved.

One of the biggest issues I have encountered is their inability to act correctly in one dispute for the fear that whatever decision they made at that factory would open them up at other factories. So the workers at the first factories are just treated as sacrificial lambs to protect other workers. And so it goes on until the workers just abandon the union in negotiations.

If you were an employer and you had three factories, one had no union, one had a union you could work with and one had a union that was difficult - and you needed to close one!!

Unions have a part to play in H&S and disciplinaries/labour relations that apart I am not sure what else they really bring to the party. We have seen with the public sector they are pretty impotent when it comes to wage negotiations.

It would be helpful - a bit like politicians - if the top brass had more relevant work experiance e.g. Brendon Barber.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:31 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

... they are pretty impotent when it comes to wage negotiations...

So a bit like you on your own, then? Although probably less so.

Re: Unions, are they evil? : Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:55 am  

Evil unions, yes.



We need to embrace the sweatshop mentality to move forward as a world economic power once again.

'Let them eat rice.'