Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:35 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

That's a simple fix too: just include "sub-contracted by" alongside "employed by".

It already works with those companies that have signed up to the London Living Wage

It starts getting a less justifiable rule: that the pay given to someone who comes in for a couple of hours a day to empty the bins, or deliver sarnies, dictates what can be paid to the top of the organisition.

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:02 pm  

Richie wrote:

It starts getting a less justifiable rule: that the pay given to someone who comes in for a couple of hours a day to empty the bins, or deliver sarnies, dictates what can be paid to the top of the organisition.

No less justifiable than offshoring or contracting out to avoid simple transparency.

As for bonuses, all business should follow the John Lewis model, an agreed percentage of salary. So if they want to pay the CEO 150% of his salary as a bonus, let them pay the cleaner 150% of his salary too

[DaveO]

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:07 pm  

Well it now seems in his rush to blame the Labour government for everything that Nick Clegg is telling outright lies. Either that or he is incompetent. From here here Clegg put the blame for the government's inability to stop the payout on the previous Labour administration. He said: "The chancellor and the Treasury have explained the frustrating realities about all of this – which is that if we ripped up the contracts which the Labour government had signed with them, or changed the arrangements of these arms-length taxpayers bodies that manage our stake in the banks, we probably, as taxpayers, would have ended up paying even more money." No 10 has said its hands were tied on the bonus because of previous contractual arrangements drawn up under the Labour government. However, this argument appeared to be undermined by the intervention of Lord Myners, the former financial services minister, who negotiated the RBS deal. Earlier on Friday, he said: "There is nothing in the employment contract of Stephen Hester or any director of Royal Bank of Scotland which binds the company or its remuneration committee to pay a mandatory bonus. "All matters relating to bonuses are at the full discretion of the board of directors and the shareholders, including UKFI, who have elected them."

Well it now seems in his rush to blame the Labour government for everything that Nick Clegg is telling outright lies. Either that or he is incompetent. From here here Clegg put the blame for the government's inability to stop the payout on the previous Labour administration. He said: "The chancellor and the Treasury have explained the frustrating realities about all of this – which is that if we ripped up the contracts which the Labour government had signed with them, or changed the arrangements of these arms-length taxpayers bodies that manage our stake in the banks, we probably, as taxpayers, would have ended up paying even more money." No 10 has said its hands were tied on the bonus because of previous contractual arrangements drawn up under the Labour government. However, this argument appeared to be undermined by the intervention of Lord Myners, the former financial services minister, who negotiated the RBS deal. Earlier on Friday, he said: "There is nothing in the employment contract of Stephen Hester or any director of Royal Bank of Scotland which binds the company or its remuneration committee to pay a mandatory bonus. "All matters relating to bonuses are at the full discretion of the board of directors and the shareholders, including UKFI, who have elected them."

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:40 pm  

DaveO wrote:

<snip>

Precisely as reported in The Independent, quoted on the very first post on this thread.

I wonder if Clegg's related to XBrettKennyX?

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:44 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

No less justifiable than offshoring or contracting out to avoid simple transparency.

Not really. Offshoring and outsourcing have much more justification than the idea of tying an exec compensation plan to the pay of a subcontracted bin collector.

cod'ead wrote:

As for bonuses, all business should follow the John Lewis model, an agreed percentage of salary. So if they want to pay the CEO 150% of his salary as a bonus, let them pay the cleaner 150% of his salary too

Would the cleaner be prepared to put (e.g.) 80% of their compensation package at risk, taking home only 20% of it through the year and having the rest depend on how well they did their job over the year?

Different roles need compensating in different ways. For me, around half of my compensation is at risk and entirely dependant on the results I bring in. For someone higher, perhaps more should be at risk. For someone doing something pretty basic where excelling or screwing it up isn't going to affect the business much, then it makes sense to guarantee a greater proportion of payment and risk less of it.

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:08 pm  

Richie wrote:

Not really. Offshoring and outsourcing have much more justification than the idea of tying an exec compensation plan to the pay of a subcontracted bin collector.

Would the cleaner be prepared to put (e.g.) 80% of their compensation package at risk, taking home only 20% of it through the year and having the rest depend on how well they did their job over the year?

Different roles need compensating in different ways. For me, around half of my compensation is at risk and entirely dependant on the results I bring in. For someone higher, perhaps more should be at risk. For someone doing something pretty basic where excelling or screwing it up isn't going to affect the business much, then it makes sense to guarantee a greater proportion of payment and risk less of it.

I'm firmly of the opinion that people should be paid a good salary, whatever that may be, and any bonuses/commission etc should be exactly that. A thank you for doing a job well, not an encouragement to play the system.

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:25 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

I'm firmly of the opinion that people should be paid a good salary, whatever that may be, and any bonuses/commission etc should be exactly that. A thank you for doing a job well, not an encouragement to play the system.

Fair enough. Personally I'm firmly of the opinion that people should be compensated through a plan that allows significant variance according to the results they deliver.

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:00 pm  

Richie wrote:

Fair enough. Personally I'm firmly of the opinion that people should be compensated through a plan that allows significant variance according to the results they deliver.

I had a similar conversation with my boss in the US a couple of years ago regarding salary. Not surprisingly at the end of 2008 we started to have trouble hitting the quarterly sales target ("we" mean the team outside the US), that had a severe impact on what I was being paid. When that happens you suddenly start to wonder why you haven't had any pay rise in 3+ years.
Basically the guy who owns the company wants to incentivise people by making a significant amount of what we earn commission based. If we all had regular pay rises and increased salaries then the bonus scheme would be less generous.

I guess in summary our "bonus" scheme is realtively fictional at the moment and depends on what sales targets the management set and how our industry is affected locally (Pfizer this year closing for example cost one guy all his bonus as it was close to a million dollars worth of his quota). On the other hand I don't have too many issues with the way our pay is set up, it does make things interesting and in a lot of ways it's more fun that way. I wouldn't change it, I've had a flat salary and I wouldn't go back to that (unless it was a really, really big one).
The one main issue that I have with varying salary too much based on performance is that if you apply that too widely you have a lot of people who simply don't know how much money is coming in at the end of every month. That makes it near impossible to manage a monthly budget, mortgage etc. for those who don't earn quite so much.

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:48 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

What sort of people would that be then?

Again who's the "you" you are referring to, would that be me or all disabled people?

Again "a nicer car"??


Need I continue? No wonder you shut up after everyone including me corrected you. Not just me you owe an apology to but all the other disabled people on the motability scheme you've offended and accused them of being fraudulent.

Jeezus

Next time I am on here remind me to use "one" instead of the more widely used "you"

ONE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO GET A 30K CAR ON MOBILITY.

What sort of people would that be? FRAUDS that's the type of people. Which bit don't you get?

Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:51 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Do they say 'ha ha' a lot on the 'proper debating forums'?

They do actually.