Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:00 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

First thing any A-level history student learns is never to use the term "the people" to describe an opinion. There's no such thing. "The people" have never been united on anything, and when politicians talk of the verdict of "the people", all they're doing is trying to silence opposition (or they were too thick to do A Level history!). 17m voted Leave. 16m voted Remain. 30m didn't vote because they either couldn't, or chose not to. There may be some out there who think "The British People" are just 17m strong, and the other 46m disappeared on 23rd June, but they're probably far-right newspaper demagogues.

Secondly, I've heard this guff about a revolt if Brexit isn't carried out several times. It's nonsense. And the reason it's nonsense is that there's a huge misrepresentation in the press leading to a popular myth arising that Brexit supporters were the "left-behinds": working-age, working-class people of the sort found on endless vox-pops on news programmes. Problem is, it's garbage. The majority of Brexit supporters were pensioners and Tories. They aren't going to express their outrage on the streets - after all, it's hard to take on a police horse with a zimmer frame. They get their far-right mouthpieces like the Express, Mail and Sun to do it for them. Most working people voted Remain, and the younger you were, the more likely you were to vote Remain. So if (and this won't happen, sadly, because our polticians are cowardly gets) Parliament now refused to invoke Article 50, thereby doing its job and saving the country from self-harm, I would personally volunteer to police any demo, if only for the opportunity of kicking the stick away from some clueless Tory pensioner who thinks it's still 1954.

I must fall into the too thick brigade

I agree that there will be no rioting on the street or, that its very, very unlikely.

Those that didn't bother to vote get what they deserve (in either direction) but, the rest of us should accept the result, much as it pains to do so.
It's still staggering just how poor the planning seems to be for life outside the EU.

I dont think that Parliment has refused to invoke article 50, indeed, they have said that this will happen in March 2018.
Whether this will still be possible, in light of the legal stuff, remains to be seen.

There is still plenty of water to flow under the proverbial bridge before we move outside the EU and the Country's future, far from being secure, now that we have "taken back control", seems as uncertain as ever.

Not since the war, have we been in such a mess but at least then, we had direction and a collective desire for a better future.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:31 pm  

Watching QT and various other political discussions it's interesting to see various opposition politicians suggesting they want the ' starting position ' for our negotiations out in the open , surely our starting position is free access to everything , complete control of immigration , continued sharing of research and security information , ie , everything we want that's best for us

And Similarily the EU countries will want no access ( or at least expensive taffifs ) free movement of people and hopefully continued sharing of research and security information , ie everything that's best for them

And after negotiations we end up somewhere in the middle

But you don't declare your hand at the start

It seems to me some are looking at how their own personal and party ambitions can be improved even if it damages the country by prolonging the process

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:26 pm  

Dally wrote:

The starting point must be the willingness to accept "hard" Brexit - any other negotiating stance will get us nowhere.

Self harm is good. Keep telling yourself that.

400 million people and three of the top 10 economies in the world will just bend over and give us a very generous divorce settlement after being abused for years. Of course they will, especially as that might encourage other countries and their right wing frothy mouthed fringe to agitate more. Don't think they'll miss Hungary any time soon, though.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:55 pm  

billypop wrote:

Self harm is good. Keep telling yourself that.

400 million people and three of the top 10 economies in the world will just bend over and give us a very generous divorce settlement after being abused for years. Of course they will, especially as that might encourage other countries and their right wing frothy mouthed fringe to agitate more. Don't think they'll miss Hungary any time soon, though.

You have to remember they are negotiating from a position of abject weakness at this point in time. The German and Italian banking systems are on the verge of collapse, Germany is telling Merkel to keep UK in at all costs, etc

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:57 pm  

Germany is in a position of weakness compared to us?

Jesus wept...

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:03 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

Germany is in a position of weakness compared to us?

Jesus wept...

And well he might, I wish we could be as weak as Germany, I really do. especially now we have shot ourselves in the groin.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:21 pm  

If Germany is on the verge of collapse, then we must be on par with Rawanda...

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:37 pm  

Have you visited London these last few years? There is at least 10 times the office cod space of 35 years ago and still expanding. The financial sector brings in more overseas revenues than the systems of USA, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Germany and Singapore combined - and that's before legal and accountancy services are added. This country is booming like it has not done since Victorian times. Trouble is most Brits would rather stay near their Mum's and moan about poor jobs rather than getting on their bikes I like the literally millions who have moved from abroad to London for jobs (without family support networks). The only issue we have here is lazy people.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:59 pm  

Have you visited London these last few years? There is at least 10 times the office space of 35 years ago and still expanding. The financial sector brings in more overseas revenues than the systems of USA, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Germany and Singapore combined - and that's before legal and accountancy services are added. This country is booming like it has not done since Victorian times. Trouble is most Brits would rather stay near their Mum's and moan about poor jobs rather than getting on their bikes. Unlike the literally millions who have moved from abroad to London for jobs (without family support networks). The only issue we have here is lazy people.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:02 pm  

Dally wrote:

Have you visited London these last few years? There is at least 10 times the office cod space of 35 years ago and still expanding. The financial sector brings in more overseas revenues than the systems of USA, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Germany and Singapore combined - and that's before legal and accountancy services are added. This country is booming like it has not done since Victorian times. Trouble is most Brits would rather stay near their Mum's and moan about poor jobs rather than getting on their bikes I like the literally millions who have moved from abroad to London for jobs (without family support networks). The only issue we have here is lazy people.

Sorry to have to break this to you, Dally but most if not all of the decisions to invest in this infrastructure was made before we voted to leave. All bets are now off, entirely self inflicted.

More fool us.