Re: Kier Starmer : Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:32 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

If they weren't teaching then I would suggest they weren't working - maybe you class laying in the garden drinking pina coladas in the early Summer sun as working - I don't.

The kids could easily have sat their exams in 2020 - the teachers and their unions didn't seem to keen to facilitate that - I wonder why?

Kids were getting a fraction of their normal education - so as we had the same number of teacher delivering significantly less teaching what were the majority of the teachers doing?

Getting paid and working are two very different concepts

You sir are cluess with regards to this, the whole lockdown has thrown a curveball to just about every sector, both public and private - people having to adapt differently- teachers

- Having planned teaching structures completely blown apart
-Re-planning for new structures but this changing sometimes daily
-Teaching pupils in school
-Having to try to teach the same lesson as the above online, or even over the phone where pupils don’t have the online facility
- Counselling pupils who are struggling with adapting/getting behind etc
-Currently planning for pupils to be in school - then due to one failing a test the whole class/ year having to isolate, so therefore having to completely arrange that learning back to an online facility within an hour

How many businesses have worked their nuts off over the last 12 months or so, but not achieved the same results as previous years - it’s the same principle with teaching, indeed probably putting more effort in than previously just to keep their heads above water

As I say your clueless, not just on this subject but your recent comments appear to have no concept of current reality

Re: Kier Starmer : Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:35 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

why do we think the public sector should be treated differently in terms of remuneration than the private sector that in reality funds it?

I agree, it shouldn't. So the repeated discrepancies in public vs private pay rises (public being repeatedly lower for the avoidance of doubt) since 2010 should be addressed rather than perpetuated.

Re: Kier Starmer : Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:58 am  

ColD wrote:

You sir are cluess with regards to this, the whole lockdown has thrown a curveball to just about every sector, both public and private - people having to adapt differently- teachers

- Having planned teaching structures completely blown apart
-Re-planning for new structures but this changing sometimes daily
-Teaching pupils in school
-Having to try to teach the same lesson as the above online, or even over the phone where pupils don’t have the online facility
- Counselling pupils who are struggling with adapting/getting behind etc
-Currently planning for pupils to be in school - then due to one failing a test the whole class/ year having to isolate, so therefore having to completely arrange that learning back to an online facility within an hour

How many businesses have worked their nuts off over the last 12 months or so, but not achieved the same results as previous years - it’s the same principle with teaching, indeed probably putting more effort in than previously just to keep their heads above water

As I say your clueless, not just on this subject but your recent comments appear to have no concept of current reality

Teachers are no different to most commercial environments - change was needed and quick.

Your opinion is valid but the schools had plenty of time to prepare there are plenty of on-line platforms to copy - most professional study is now done on line.

If all these kids are working to the same curriculum then surely you only need one version of the lesson that could have been put out on a dedicated BBC channel and the teachers could have then concentrated on supporting the children - not rocket science is it? How is that private schools were up and running almost instantly but state schools couldn't get their act together?

On line teaching is not a new concept - it really isn't - flipping from classroom to on line should be a very simply process.

Loads of businesses have adapted very quickly to a change in circumstances - my wife works a major PLC they have been working from home for over a year that's 60,000 people - it can be done it is just having the desire and skill set to achieve it. How many Zoom meetings have you done - I have done hundreds you have simply just got to make it happen.

These kids are the future - sadly they have been let down by a group of adults who simply didn't react positively enough

Re: Kier Starmer : Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:00 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I agree, it shouldn't. So the repeated discrepancies in public vs private pay rises (public being repeatedly lower for the avoidance of doubt) since 2010 should be addressed rather than perpetuated.

I would suggest the majority of workers in the private sector didn't see much of an increase from 2010 - minimum wage apart which is the same in the public sector - as you well know.

Re: Kier Starmer : Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:31 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I would suggest the majority of workers in the private sector didn't see much of an increase from 2010 - minimum wage apart which is the same in the public sector - as you well know.

The statistics of wage increases prove otherwise.

Re: Kier Starmer : Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:35 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

How is that private schools were up and running almost instantly but state schools couldn't get their act together?

The fact that you're even asking this question is embarrassing.

The differences shouldn't need explaining. Including but not limited to the levels of funding, the profile of students, the number of students per class and per teacher, the availability of appropriate kit at home, the availability and practicality of parental support.

Having gone through the private and seen the state sector these are two utterly separate worlds. It's mind blowing that you don't know that.

Re: Kier Starmer : Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:13 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

The fact that you're even asking this question is embarrassing.

The differences shouldn't need explaining. Including but not limited to the levels of funding, the profile of students, the number of students per class and per teacher, the availability of appropriate kit at home, the availability and practicality of parental support.

Having gone through the private and seen the state sector these are two utterly separate worlds. It's mind blowing that you don't know that.

Once again you want to push your agenda - the reason is simple - a desire to ensure kids get educated. In the public schools if they don't perform they lose pupils - sadly there were no real desire in the state sector. No teacher in the state sector is going to either lose pay or jobs regardless of whether kids get educated guarantee if they were things would have been different.

The technology used in both cases was the same so the glacial pace of the state sector was a disgrace. Using Zoom/Teams was free and they could have used the BBC if they had actually got their act together. The unions were more interested in keeping schools closed than educating the kids.

It suits your agenda all things public all good - all things private bad.

Re: Kier Starmer : Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:20 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

The statistics of wage increases prove otherwise.

Now is your chance to show us - no doubt Politico will have a playbook you can use?

Are you saying the minimum wage only applies to private sector or that the vast majority of public sector staff aren't impacted because their wages are well above the minimum.

20% of all workers are employed in retail - how many of them do you think are earning much above the minimum wage? Of the 5.3m workers in the public sector how many of them are on minimum wage?

Re: Kier Starmer : Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:13 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote: I agree, it shouldn't. So the repeated discrepancies in public vs private pay rises (public being repeatedly lower for the avoidance of doubt) since 2010 should be addressed rather than perpetuated. https://moneyweek-com.cdn.ampproject.or ... -gets-more Hope this helps

The Ghost of '99 wrote: I agree, it shouldn't. So the repeated discrepancies in public vs private pay rises (public being repeatedly lower for the avoidance of doubt) since 2010 should be addressed rather than perpetuated. https://moneyweek-com.cdn.ampproject.or ... -gets-more Hope this helps

[Mild Rover]

Re: Kier Starmer : Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:42 am  

wotsupcas wrote: https://moneyweek-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/moneyweek.com/economy/uk-economy/602141/private-vs-public-sector-pay-who-really-gets-more?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16157202900702&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fmoneyweek.com%2Feconomy%2Fuk-economy%2F602141%2Fprivate-vs-public-sector-pay-who-really-gets-more Hope this helps It is an interesting analysis. This what the article refers back to: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... nings/2019 And it draws in turn from this: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... nings/2019 A couple of points that jumped out for me are the differences between lower and higher skilled workers across the sectors. Which is probably unsurprising and reflects my own experience. This is also reflected in the mean and median proportions of public sector pay that private sector workers receive. V.similar mean but lower median, reflecting more variety in the private sector. To the point that lumping in Amazon delivery drivers and bond traders feels overly arbitrary.

wotsupcas wrote: https://moneyweek-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/moneyweek.com/economy/uk-economy/602141/private-vs-public-sector-pay-who-really-gets-more?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16157202900702&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fmoneyweek.com%2Feconomy%2Fuk-economy%2F602141%2Fprivate-vs-public-sector-pay-who-really-gets-more Hope this helps It is an interesting analysis. This what the article refers back to: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... nings/2019 And it draws in turn from this: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... nings/2019 A couple of points that jumped out for me are the differences between lower and higher skilled workers across the sectors. Which is probably unsurprising and reflects my own experience. This is also reflected in the mean and median proportions of public sector pay that private sector workers receive. V.similar mean but lower median, reflecting more variety in the private sector. To the point that lumping in Amazon delivery drivers and bond traders feels overly arbitrary.