Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:51 pm  

And Osborne is making such a good job of it Sal

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:48 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Growth has to come from the private sector you will not eradicate a deficit by increasing public spending...

Quite apart from anything else, this is historically incorrect. We had a massive debt after WWII. Do you know what we did? We went and borrowed and invested in building the NHS and education and loads of other things. And do you know what else we built with it? That's right – the prosperity of the 1950s.

These are matters of historic record.

And if one were to take the example of the private builder of fire engines that laid off half its staff a day or so after this coalition took office, then one has a perfect illustration of public sector cuts having a direct, negative consequence for the private sector.

Equally, of course, if those cuts were to be reversed, the company (that's the private company, remember) might gain contracts to build more fire engines. And ergo you have a little bit of growth, with more people employed, more people paying taxes and spending money in their local economy, and less money being spent on benefits. Ergo the deficit is decreased.

Sal Paradise wrote:

... Growth was less than 1% in 2010 ...

1) That was just two years after banks took us to the brink.

2) It was growth. We are now in a double dip recession. Caused by the imbecile in No11.

3) Anything over 0% is growth – and is a hell of a lot better than Osborne has managed.

Sal Paradise wrote:

2009 the last full year under Labour saw a significant downturn in the economy, unemployment has been growing since 2008 - to say Labour had it under control is a not supported by the figures!!

2009 – will that be the year after the effing banks tried to screw the entire global economy, will it? Y'remember that little event, do you?

There was growth when this lot took office – even you have acknowledged that. And that was just two years after near total meltdown.

Well let's spell it out very simply, once again: A whole whopping four years later, we are in a double-dip recession. The deficit has increased. Borrowing is up.

It's not working. The imbecile's plans are not working, because you can not get growth out of austerity. Even the IMF, that bastion of leftie thinking, has said that, in 170 examples of austerity policies being enacted over 40 years, not a single one has created growth.

And on the basis of your comments here about how dreadful it all was in 2009, a mere year after the financial crisis began in earnest, then Osborne has had a full year longer than that – and that was building on the growth that he inherited – to improve things further. He has not. He has made things a lot, lot worse.

You'd think that this was rocket science, FFS.

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:37 am  

Mintball wrote: Between a Conservative Party chairman who wants us to be a tax haven, more like the Cayman Islands, All in it together ... Conversely, there are many who expose the myth that we need to drive down taxes for the super rich to remain. Britain's biggest taxpayers

Mintball wrote: Between a Conservative Party chairman who wants us to be a tax haven, more like the Cayman Islands, All in it together ... Conversely, there are many who expose the myth that we need to drive down taxes for the super rich to remain. Britain's biggest taxpayers

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:47 am  

It will be interesting to see how this develops: Minimum-tax city to be built in Honduras Quite how you get the basic infrastructure for a whole city, within a budget of $15m is going to be a challenge all of its own and it will be very insteresting to see what happens when the fist inhabitants fall ill.

It will be interesting to see how this develops: Minimum-tax city to be built in Honduras Quite how you get the basic infrastructure for a whole city, within a budget of $15m is going to be a challenge all of its own and it will be very insteresting to see what happens when the fist inhabitants fall ill.

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:55 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Growth has to come from the private sector you will not eradicate a deficit by increasing public spending. Pumping money into the public sector - Balls' preferred method - is not going to stimulate growth. Even Balls admitted Labour would need to reduce the level of borrowing if they retained power. Balls never offered a solution to driving growth.

Growth was less than 1% in 2010 so to say we had growth is stretching a definition and 2009 the last full year under Labour saw a significant downturn in the economy, unemployment has been growing since 2008 - to say Labour had it under control is a not supported by the figures!!

Capital builds that can the be sold to first time buyers desperate for a home is an easy way to make a start.
Just having a policy of slash and burn will do only one thing stop folks spending money and drive us into a recession and guess what has happened oh yeah we have done that twice.
I said this right at the outset and I stick by that.
Oh and I got a 'D' in economics which is a damn sight more that Osbourne got.

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:46 am  

To expand on last night's post.

We have an economy that is largely based on the service industries, including finance and retail. That's why, in the case of the latter, quarterly retail figures have become so, so important for the wider national economy that they're now headline news.

Pretty much everyone now agrees that this aspect at least of neo-liberal ideology does not work. We need a more balanced economy, where we are also making more things and finding markets in which to sell them.

This is entirely possible – but it is not going to happen overnight.

So, unless we want the deficit to increase further, we have to look for growth in the economy now. And that, at its simplest, means people having money in their pockets and the confidence to spend it.

So for instance, if you did nothing more than stop the job cuts in the public sector and end the pay freeze that has been in place for some years already, you would see a change in those points.

Thus it is simple logic that, for instance, if you start a massive home building/renovation programme, putting more people in work, increasing business for construction suppliers etc, boosting employment, boosting business for non-construction related businesses (cafes, pubs etc) and so forth.

A suggestion that I heard a couple of months ago from, IIRC, Robert Skidelsky: a project to properly insulate all Britain's homes. It's easy and quick to train people to do such jobs, so you can get it up and running really quickly.

In the longer term, you improve the housing stock, you improve people's lives, you help the environment – and you help people save money.

And you boost the economy.

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:51 am  

cod'ead wrote: Conversely, there are many who expose the myth that we need to drive down taxes for the super rich to remain. Britain's biggest taxpayers Interesting. And a quote to end it from the lovely Owen Oyston, rapist. He certainly used to live in a small 'castle' just outside of Lancaster. I was in the sixth form with two of his daughters, one of whom saw no oddity in complaining to her fellow pupils that the family was poor. After all, she told us in all sincerity, "I don't have hot water in my bathroom!"

cod'ead wrote: Conversely, there are many who expose the myth that we need to drive down taxes for the super rich to remain. Britain's biggest taxpayers Interesting. And a quote to end it from the lovely Owen Oyston, rapist. He certainly used to live in a small 'castle' just outside of Lancaster. I was in the sixth form with two of his daughters, one of whom saw no oddity in complaining to her fellow pupils that the family was poor. After all, she told us in all sincerity, "I don't have hot water in my bathroom!"

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:51 am  

Do a little search on that youtubey thingy for wearetheintruders

They recently managed to gatecrash a little do, laid on by corporates to mark the retirement of Dave Hartnett of HMRC, in thanks for his services to tax avoidance. Comments at the end are very Mitchellesque

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:00 pm  

Hey Cod'ed, did you miss this one? I'm here to help. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19907058 I know how much you like to flag up immoral activity in public office.

Hey Cod'ed, did you miss this one? I'm here to help. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19907058 I know how much you like to flag up immoral activity in public office.

Re: Tell us what you really think ... : Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:29 pm  

Ajw71 wrote: Hey Cod'ed, did you miss this one? I'm here to help. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19907058 I know how much you like to flag up immoral activity in public office. That's OK Jimmy Savile was a tory

Ajw71 wrote: Hey Cod'ed, did you miss this one? I'm here to help. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19907058 I know how much you like to flag up immoral activity in public office. That's OK Jimmy Savile was a tory