Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:50 am  

Bullseye wrote:

We all benefit from paying tax.

We only benefit if the tax collected is not wasted - efficient use of tax revenues is a good thing a glut of bloated public services is not.

What happened in the NHS when Labour increased funding through NI increases - staff got substantial pay increases and drug companies saw an opportunity to increase prices - that is what will happen again if Corbyn has his way.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:56 am  

Mike Oxlong wrote:

TBH people moaning about tax saying higher earners should pay more just come over as lazy.

And would they still think higher earners paying more tax was so great if they were higher earners themselves? I'm sure some will lie and say they'd still be happy with it. Just jealously with most that they don't have as much money as others.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:05 am  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

And you want to make sure that people at the bottom stay at the bottom just so you can enjoy the money you earn. Just remember its highly unlikely you got to where you are without standing on the back of some of the people you want to keep at the bottom. If there is no money for education due to people not paying their share then its tantamount to pulling up the drawbridge to the castle once you are safe inside.

Not at all - I came from a back to back house in Listerhills in Bradford so I have no objection to anyone working hard and enjoying the fruit of their labour - is it unreasonable that someone sacrifices early in their career, works hard/smart and gets outputs in line with their inputs?

It is also very likely that a number of people have benefited from working in teams I have managed and businesses that I have run.

This government is spending huge sums of money on education 86bn an increase of 1bn on the previous year. It has been pointed out that attainment appears to increasing - which seems to indicate it is about better practises rather than throwing money willy nilly?

Again this is my issue - just throwing money at a problem - Corbyn/Labour mantra isn't a long term strategy. Where is the manifesto is their anything about driving efficiences improving procesess etc? Then they would bite the hand that feeds the unions!!

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:07 am  

Mike Oxlong wrote:

TBH people moaning about tax saying higher earners should pay more just come over as lazy.

Why? There is many a hard working poor person and many an idle rich person. Equating the 2 is more striver vs skiver nonsense

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:08 am  

Bullseye wrote:

TBH a lot of people moaning about paying tax on here just come over as selfish.

Why don't the government just decide how much we all need and let us have some pocket money - that is what you are driving towards IMO

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:13 am  

Bullseye wrote:

TBH a lot of people moaning about paying tax on here just come over as selfish.

Well, that is the main difference between the Tories and most of the other parties.

The default position of THe Conservatives is to allow people to keep all that they earn, without any regard for those that are unfortunate enough not to be in a position to do so.

Of course there are people who abuse the system, just as there are at the top of the pile wh abuse the system (some of whom defraud HMRC out of huge amounts.

Having moved away from trusting a doctors word that someone is unable to work, we now have another hoop for benefit claimants to jump through, just to prove that they are unfit for work.

Is the "fit for work assessment" really necessary ?

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:23 am  

Mike Oxlong wrote:

TBH people moaning about tax saying higher earners should pay more just come over as lazy.

How do you suggest we fund the NHS, schools, Universities, police, armed forces, social care? We can cut it to the bone as the Tories are doing & have always done, resulting in the society we now have, or we can invest in it properly. If you want the former, vote Tory & you can be happy in your own selfish little world. If you think a caring society is one to aspire to then the only way is higher taxation for those who can afford it. Those on the UK average of £26k cannot afford it.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:47 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Not at all - I came from a back to back house in Listerhills in Bradford so I have no objection to anyone working hard and enjoying the fruit of their labour - is it unreasonable that someone sacrifices early in their career, works hard/smart and gets outputs in line with their inputs?

It is also very likely that a number of people have benefited from working in teams I have managed and businesses that I have run.

This government is spending huge sums of money on education 86bn an increase of 1bn on the previous year. It has been pointed out that attainment appears to increasing - which seems to indicate it is about better practises rather than throwing money willy nilly?

Again this is my issue - just throwing money at a problem - Corbyn/Labour mantra isn't a long term strategy. Where is the manifesto is their anything about driving efficiences improving procesess etc? Then they would bite the hand that feeds the unions!!

Some people just aren't lucky enough or have the same backing as you did to improve their lot in life. Whether that's because they don't have the support or because they simply aren't smart enough to realise opportunities. They may even have a medical condition which limits what they can do.

Also someone has to do the jobs that are low paid so you can get your groceries or latest gadget from Amazon cheap. Are you saying that anyone who does these jobs should not get help from the state to pay the exorbitant rents that private landlords(most who are in the 40p or 45p tax bracket) charge? To pay for these benefits, the money has to come from somewhere so why shouldn't the people who earn money off those on the lower end of the pay scale pay more for it?

With regards to Education Increasing funds means nothing if the amount of people who need to use our education system has increased. Its like spending £40 on a weekly food shop for 2 then only having an extra £10 added to that when the number of people you need to feed doubles and the price of the food increases.

You can talk about inefficiencies and improving processes all you want but that also takes money for someone to highlight them, plan the change and then implement the changes. To do all this with a real time cut in funding as well as maintain current levels of service(Actually they are expected to increase levels of service) is ridiculous and virtually impossible.

But hey, don't you worry about that. You get to keep more of the money you earn while depriving people the same opportunities you had.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:22 am  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

Some people just aren't lucky enough or have the same backing as you did to improve their lot in life. Whether that's because they don't have the support or because they simply aren't smart enough to realise opportunities. They may even have a medical condition which limits what they can do.

Also someone has to do the jobs that are low paid so you can get your groceries or latest gadget from Amazon cheap. Are you saying that anyone who does these jobs should not get help from the state to pay the exorbitant rents that private landlords(most who are in the 40p or 45p tax bracket) charge? To pay for these benefits, the money has to come from somewhere so why shouldn't the people who earn money off those on the lower end of the pay scale pay more for it?

With regards to Education Increasing funds means nothing if the amount of people who need to use our education system has increased. Its like spending £40 on a weekly food shop for 2 then only having an extra £10 added to that when the number of people you need to feed doubles and the price of the food increases.

You can talk about inefficiencies and improving processes all you want but that also takes money for someone to highlight them, plan the change and then implement the changes. To do all this with a real time cut in funding as well as maintain current levels of service(Actually they are expected to increase levels of service) is ridiculous and virtually impossible.

But hey, don't you worry about that. You get to keep more of the money you earn while depriving people the same opportunities you had.

Anybody could get where I am - I don't have a private or university education I just worked really hard to achieve - it is really that simple.

If people can't afford something is it really the job of the state to provide it? If the state didn't then businesses would have to - the question is are the benefits paid out to workers greater than the CT and NI - a tax on employing people - paid by businesses? I suspect not.

Those people running the public sector will already know where the savings can be made - if they don't they are in the wrong job. You don't need expensive consultants to identify savings you already have the people in the know i.e. the employees you just need to engage them. That is a typical Labour trait lets just throw money at it.

I don't mind paying my fair share but I don't its fair that business and the higher paid should be seen as a cash cow to fund inefficient public services.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:30 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Anybody could get where I am - I don't have a private or university education I just worked really hard to achieve - it is really that simple.

If people can't afford something is it really the job of the state to provide it? If the state didn't then businesses would have to - the question is are the benefits paid out to workers greater than the CT and NI - a tax on employing people - paid by businesses? I suspect not.

Those people running the public sector will already know where the savings can be made - if they don't they are in the wrong job. You don't need expensive consultants to identify savings you already have the people in the know i.e. the employees you just need to engage them. That is a typical Labour trait lets just throw money at it.

I don't mind paying my fair share but I don't its fair that business and the higher paid should be seen as a cash cow to fund inefficient public services.

Ignore all the evidence - take on the views of the right wing media by osmosis - and repeat it ad infinitum until you convince yourself its true. Meanwhile, the NHS is collapsing, we're hurtling towards severing ties with our biggest trading partner, the national debt has gone up by 700 trillion, and more and more people are in poverty. But you're alright - thanks in large part to a better opportunities created by a kinder politics - so balls to everyone else.

I sometimes wish I saw life in as facile and deliberately ill-informed way as people like you; I'd probably sleep better.