Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:03 pm  

Cronus wrote:

That would be ideal. Except it's a fantasy. The only way Israel will retreat to those borders is if the surrounding countries attacked and beat them back. They tried that once before and Israel are considerably more powerful now.

So, avoiding fantastical solutions and given the actual realities of the situation - neither Israel nor the Palestinians/Hamas will budge - what can be done?

I think I was pretty close when I said very little. The only effective action for me would be a complete reversal of US support and severe sanctions from the entire international community - economic sanctions, a total travel ban in or out of Israel, a complete trading ban, etc. But that won't happen either. The US is too deeply tied to Israel and the international community is weak.

What would your solution be? Just let it continue?

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:41 pm  

West Leeds Rhino wrote:

What would your solution be? Just let it continue?

You've quoted his solution. For America to stop sponsoring the murderers!

#OpIsrael

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:34 pm  

Lebron James wrote:

You've quoted his solution. For America to stop sponsoring the murderers!

#OpIsrael

He did suggest that, but also stated that it was unlikely to happen so wondered what other solutions he thought there could be.

Whilst I do agree with your sentiment, and you will note from my earlier posts whose 'side' I am on and who started it, it does take two to tango!

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:11 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

So we just allow the bully to keep bullying its smaller neighbour?

Given Israel's past, it seems more than a little perverse that it is determined to visit the same privations on its neighbours that its own people suffered many years ago

Did I say that? I've offered my most realistic solution, even if I think it's unlikely.

What do you suggest 'we' - realistically, not some fantastical vision that simply will not happen - do about it?

Honestly I don't think there's a solution unless one side capitulates completely. Don't make the mistake of assuming that's what I think should happen.

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:12 pm  

West Leeds Rhino wrote:

My suggestion would be the same as cod'ead's.

'Send Israel back to pre-1967' is not a realistic suggestion.

West Leeds Rhino wrote:

What would your solution be? Just let it continue?

I've offered the most realistic solution I can envisage, even if I doubt it will happen. I'm not sure a solution exists short of the Palestinians capitulating entirely. As I said to fishface, don't make the mistake of assuming that's what I think should happen.

I'm all out of ideas. Perhaps you could come up with something that might work in the real world?

Re: Cancellation of passports : Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:14 am  

Cronus wrote:

'Send Israel back to pre-1967' is not a realistic suggestion.

Why not? Pre-1967 before Israel started to expand on to land belonging to another country? Just because it would be difficult, why should it not be a target? The only barrier is the foreign policy of the USA which has been found to be lacking in support more recently.

Re: Cancellation of passports : Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:31 am  

Jon Snow was on fine form last night. Worth a watch on channel 4 news catch up

#OpIsrael

Re: Cancellation of passports : Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:03 pm  

why doesn't the almighty god intervene and fix these warring nations, surely a few quick thunderbolts and a plague of locust would suffice?

Re: Cancellation of passports : Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:40 pm  

West Leeds Rhino wrote:

Why not? Pre-1967 before Israel started to expand on to land belonging to another country? Just because it would be difficult, why should it not be a target? The only barrier is the foreign policy of the USA which has been found to be lacking in support more recently.

If you don't see why Israel will NEVER go back to those borders, you don't understand the mindset of Israelis. They are too heavily invested in those lands, their entire raison d'être is to secure their historic lands and protect their people.

You don't set out on a diplomatic effort with a totally unrealistic goal. That's just stupid. IMO the best you can expect from Israel - unless the entire international community comes down hard on them - is to allow free movement across Palestinian borders. And Hamas will never settle for that so we'll soon be back at square one again.

The US is not the only barrier at all, Israel is a force in its own right. If the US withdrew support Israel would feel the pinch a little but they have sufficient stockpiles, manufacturing capacity and buying power to get through without too much trouble.

So I ask again - other than unrealistic ideals, what suggestions do you have?

Re: Cancellation of passports : Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:30 am  

Cronus wrote:

If you don't see why Israel will NEVER go back to those borders, you don't understand the mindset of Israelis. They are too heavily invested in those lands, their entire raison d'être is to secure their historic lands and protect their people.

You don't set out on a diplomatic effort with a totally unrealistic goal. That's just stupid. IMO the best you can expect from Israel - unless the entire international community comes down hard on them - is to allow free movement across Palestinian borders. And Hamas will never settle for that so we'll soon be back at square one again.

The US is not the only barrier at all, Israel is a force in its own right. If the US withdrew support Israel would feel the pinch a little but they have sufficient stockpiles, manufacturing capacity and buying power to get through without too much trouble.

So I ask again - other than unrealistic ideals, what suggestions do you have?

One man's unrealistic ideal is another man's challenge.

Just because the Israeli's have dug in doesn't mean it's impossible to reach a middle ground between the two. I understand the mindset of the Israeli's, but that shouldn't mean that it's OK for them to do what they have/are doing and that nothing should be done about it. Good job people didn't say that about Hitler!*

The qualification that Israel are allowed to take land on the premise of what it says in a story book is ridiculous. Not just because the earths crust is constantly moving.

*I am not comparing Hitler and the Israeli's