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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:28 pm  
El Barbudo wrote:
Well, I took him to mean that the economic cycle was then an awful lot smoother than the previous Tory government's huge swings from massive boom to severe recession.
Which was true, if badly phrased.

But, back to your previous wild comment about the conservatives always sorting out labour's "overborrowing"... How foolish do you feel now? Probably not at all, you'll just carry on ignoring half the argument.


Are you serious?

Are you seriously trying to argue that the measures that the coalition are forced to take now are not the result of the chronic economic mismanagement of the previous administration?
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:34 pm  
cod'ead wrote:
My message was aimed more at individual employees than organisations. That was always the excuse: "we've got to pay the best to get the best". What doesn't seem to follow is how much better "the best" keep getting in order to justify the ever spralling remunerations packages.


There is a really simple survey that any reporter worth his salt could do in an afternoon ring-around - "How many of your star performers, the ones who would clear off to another country if they didn't get their bonus, how many of these people are British and ho many were sourced from overseas ?"


If as I suspect the vast majority of them are British then the theory that British banks only employ the worlds top sharp-shooters who are all mavericks and will move on to anywhere else if they don't get what they want, is bollox.

Sir Fred Goodwin hasn't exactly run off to another foreign based market to maintain his multi-million stipend has he and yet he probably used that as justification for his multi-million stipend.
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:35 pm  
DaveO wrote:
And if you read Robert Peston on the BBC even though the government as majority shareholder could have vetoed it the treasury accepted the remuneration committees recommendation because they feared if they didn't Hester and the board of directors would have resigned.

What I want to know is did they threaten resignation or not?

If they did and basically blackmailed Cameron they should have been sacked not given a bonus.

If the treasury just thought it was a risk (i.e. there was no outright threat of resignation) and paid it because they thought they might resign then that is equally unacceptable and shows incredibly weak government from Cameron (as does succumbing to blackmail).

Either way this demonstrates even when the bank is state run bankers can ignore calls from the majority shareholder to curb bonuses and Cameron is weak or has no desire to deal with the bonus culture.

So what if they all resigned? The shares are worth little as it is and their bluff needs to be called at some point or nothing will change.

Put someone in charge who is salaried. There is no need for bonuses in the first place. If you do your job you take home your agreed wages. That is what the majority of us do. Bankers should be no different. The bonus culture of "if we don't pay it they will leave" is just self serving drivel.



That well known independent institution the BBC. Or "Buggers Broadcasting Communism" as it is known............................ What next? Citing Mein Kampf as evidence for social policy? :shock:


In terms of the bonus, I have to say I am not privy to the T&C's of his contract etc However, IF he has "turned the bank around" and saved the taxpayer say £50m and IF the terms were he would get 2% of it then good luck to him. That's a net £49m for the treasury (i.e. you and I), job done.

However, I agree that the banks should be split into two.

1- Retail banks - backed by the governement (i.e. you and I) - there to provide a place for savings/mortgages etc

2. Investment banks - backed by no-one - there to do whatever they like


The real issue I have over the bail out of the banks is that the employees of the banks were in a zero lose situation. Play around with money, if they "win" they generate massive profits and reap the associated bonuses. If they lose, well the country cannot afford to let them go bust as it's the "man on the street" who would suffer. There was no effective risk and reward.

Split them into two, guarantee #1, (this will inevitably lead to more modest profits/salaries etc)

If #2 goes bust, then it's their call. No state bail out. Equally good luck to them, pay as much money to their staff as they like. There is no reason for public outcry.
Last edited by XBrettKennyX on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:36 pm  
XBrettKennyX wrote:
Are you serious?

Are you seriously trying to argue that the measures that the coalition are forced to take now are not the result of the chronic economic mismanagement of the previous administration?


Are you seriously trying to suggest that the previous administration were solely responsible for the crash in the world markets, the euro-crisis, etc, etc ?
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:38 pm  
McLaren_Field wrote:
There is a really simple survey that any reporter worth his salt could do in an afternoon ring-around - "How many of your star performers, the ones who would clear off to another country if they didn't get their bonus, how many of these people are British and ho many were sourced from overseas ?"


If as I suspect the vast majority of them are British then the theory that British banks only employ the worlds top sharp-shooters who are all mavericks and will move on to anywhere else if they don't get what they want, is bollox.

Sir Fred Goodwin hasn't exactly run off to another foreign based market to maintain his multi-million stipend has he and yet he probably used that as justification for his multi-million stipend.



http://wire.kapitall.com/investment-ide ... ng-stats/#

I think this says it all about "star performers".
McLaren_Field wrote:
There is a really simple survey that any reporter worth his salt could do in an afternoon ring-around - "How many of your star performers, the ones who would clear off to another country if they didn't get their bonus, how many of these people are British and ho many were sourced from overseas ?"


If as I suspect the vast majority of them are British then the theory that British banks only employ the worlds top sharp-shooters who are all mavericks and will move on to anywhere else if they don't get what they want, is bollox.

Sir Fred Goodwin hasn't exactly run off to another foreign based market to maintain his multi-million stipend has he and yet he probably used that as justification for his multi-million stipend.



http://wire.kapitall.com/investment-ide ... ng-stats/#

I think this says it all about "star performers".
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:38 pm  
cod'ead wrote:
My message was aimed more at individual employees than organisations. That was always the excuse: "we've got to pay the best to get the best". What doesn't seem to follow is how much better "the best" keep getting in order to justify the ever spralling remunerations packages.


That's patently not the case - as a very high proportion of FTSE 100 company directors are British, despite them being global company's in most cases. Now if we look at other competitive sphere - eg football, rugby, just about anything where more than 3 countries are involved are British the best? Answer = no. It therefore follows they do not need to be paid so much if they're British. Also would the individuals really go abroad - would they be capable of commanding a higher / as hihjly paid directorship elsewhere? I think not.

The situation is somewhat different in investment banking though as the individuals with the requisite experience (no particular skills - just intelligent and trained in their jobs) are mobile. Mind you, there's only a few places that they'd be willing to live in and if the financial institutions based in those places reached consensus there'd be no need for bonuses. In fact, as the big payers are likely to be the same company's in each place it would be a simple matter to agree.
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:40 pm  
McLaren_Field wrote:
Are you seriously trying to suggest that the previous administration were solely responsible for the crash in the world markets, the euro-crisis, etc, etc ?


Of course not.

However, they were guilty of thinking that the "good times" would last forever, and not putting money aside for a rainy day.

Spending millions creating factitious public sector jobs "Executive of gay/lesbian equality in the workplace. £40k p.a. anyone?"
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:41 pm  
DHM wrote:
http://wire.kapitall.com/investment-idea/can-a-monkey-beat-a-hedge-fund-new-study-reveals-disturbing-stats/#

I think this says it all about "star performers".


Thanks for the evidence :lol:

I didn't really need it though, all I had to do was look at my pension funds over the past five years to realise that someone, somewhere, hasn't a clue what to do other than claw back their fees every year.
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:42 pm  
XBrettKennyX wrote:
Of course not.

However, they were guilty of thinking that the "good times" would last forever, and not putting money aside for a rainy day.

Spending millions creating factitious public sector jobs "Executive of gay/lesbian equality in the workplace. £40k p.a. anyone?"



Got any more urban myths to peddle ?
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Re: RBS bonuses - "Labour stitched us up" : Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:42 pm  
XBrettKennyX wrote:
That well known independent institution the BBC. Or "Buggers Broadcasting Communism" as it is known ...


Only by particularly twerpish imbeciles.
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