Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:35 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Time was when life was much simpler.

If you wanted to own your own house, you first started saving with a building society and once you'd proved to them that you were responsible with money and you'd managed to save the requisite 20% for a deposit, they'd usually grant you a mortgage. If you wanted a loan to buy anything else, you went to a bank or a finance company and borrowed from them, assuming that they thought you were a suitable risk. Similarly, if you wanted to insure your house or your car, you'd go to an insurance company and if you had lots of spare cash and wanted to invest in the stock exchange, you sought out a stockbroker. If you were happy renting or thought that you couldn't afford to own your own home, you rented, usually a decent, sound property from your local council, at an affordable rent.

Then someone had the bright idea of enabling building societies to demutualise and become banks, they'd still offer morgages (as would the banks now) but they'd also offer you loans, insurance, loan-insurance, a stock-trading facility and all other sorts of bollox that nobody knew they needed until these new banks convinced us. These new banks also encouraged people to become property magnates by offering £buy to let" mortgages and houses stopped being somewhere to live but became an "investment for the future"

We also had an old-age pension from the state that offered a comfortable standard of living, especially to a pensioner who rented an old-aged person's bungalow from the council. They still have a similar thing in Norway and they fund it from the revenues generated by Statoil. Now the Norwegians sit on this big pile of gas and oil under the North Sea, when it was first discovered and divvied up, although a few other countries got a look in, the biggest part was shared between the UK and Norway. Round about the time that the bright spark decided that deregulating banks was a good idea, they also thought that flogging off our state-owned oil & gas licensor would also be good for us all. So while the Norwegians now have a sustainable (and will be so for many decades to come), state pension that is underwritten by Statoil, we are engaged in a blame game and a race to the bottom, just to get a few quid into the back pockets of politicians' chums.

No prizes for guessing who was responsible for the deregulation and the fire-sale of state assets

I thought British Gas was sold to the general population? The fact the same day they got their shares they sold them to stockbroker and pocketed the profit is hardly the same as selling it off to their chums now is it?

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:02 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I thought British Gas was sold to the general population? The fact the same day they got their shares they sold them to stockbroker and pocketed the profit is hardly the same as selling it off to their chums now is it?

If you think British Gas was responsible for doling out North Sea licences and then generating public revenues from such licences, then you really do need to do some more research before making stupid comments.

Norway now has no national debt, not only that, the oil & gas revenues generated by Statoil (now known as The Government Pension Fund), are currently in surplus by over $200 bn, despite paying out one of the most generous pensions in the world. We flogged ours off, on the cheap, to BP in order to fund tax cuts and pay benefits to people thrown out of work through tory dogma

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:05 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: It is what it is. I can't help how you take it. If it distresses you, maybe you should have taken out CBT cover before venturing out on a public forum. Because obviously you are paid enough, and some are not. Millions have nothing left at the end of the week, and a high percentage of them have no mortgage as they are in rented. So no, it really isn't. Oh yeah. http://www.lovemoney.com/news/scams-and-rip-offs/rip-offs/1905/avoid-rip-off-redundancy-insurance. Plus as I mentioned ealier, not only were you paid enough to cover the above, clearly you had even enough surplus dosh to pay redundancy insurance premiums. Self explanatory, really. You have been fortunate in many respects, and seem oblivious to the existence of the millions that are not so lucky. Sorry, but I'm paid enough, because I budgeted it and live within my means. Something a good portion of people seem unable to do. My wage is actually irrelevant (although by lowly, I mean a little over minimum wage) as it doesn't matter how much you earn you need to keep your outgoings relative to whatever that figure is, in other words not stretching yourself too thinly financially where the slightest problem will cause financial catastrophe. Many people apparently, do live too close to the that line and then cry about it when it goes wrong for them. My point was simply that that is not living within your means and my problem is why people can't manage that. Oh and no doubt you'll sight redundancy again, yes it's largely out of your hands if it happens to you, but, and I know this from a colleague who was made redundant, life doesn't end. He didn't get another job for 18 months, he took out a 10k bank loan to cover himself and well as using his redundancy pay and was never under threat of defaulting on his mortgage (which I know he was already pushed to cover). Yes I'm sure it's difficult but with proper planning redundancy is not the end of the world either. I think it's safe to assume that you think that having outgoings that are anything from 95% - 105% of your income is perfectly acceptable and it's that attitude that people are struggling so much from.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: It is what it is. I can't help how you take it. If it distresses you, maybe you should have taken out CBT cover before venturing out on a public forum. Because obviously you are paid enough, and some are not. Millions have nothing left at the end of the week, and a high percentage of them have no mortgage as they are in rented. So no, it really isn't. Oh yeah. http://www.lovemoney.com/news/scams-and-rip-offs/rip-offs/1905/avoid-rip-off-redundancy-insurance. Plus as I mentioned ealier, not only were you paid enough to cover the above, clearly you had even enough surplus dosh to pay redundancy insurance premiums. Self explanatory, really. You have been fortunate in many respects, and seem oblivious to the existence of the millions that are not so lucky. Sorry, but I'm paid enough, because I budgeted it and live within my means. Something a good portion of people seem unable to do. My wage is actually irrelevant (although by lowly, I mean a little over minimum wage) as it doesn't matter how much you earn you need to keep your outgoings relative to whatever that figure is, in other words not stretching yourself too thinly financially where the slightest problem will cause financial catastrophe. Many people apparently, do live too close to the that line and then cry about it when it goes wrong for them. My point was simply that that is not living within your means and my problem is why people can't manage that. Oh and no doubt you'll sight redundancy again, yes it's largely out of your hands if it happens to you, but, and I know this from a colleague who was made redundant, life doesn't end. He didn't get another job for 18 months, he took out a 10k bank loan to cover himself and well as using his redundancy pay and was never under threat of defaulting on his mortgage (which I know he was already pushed to cover). Yes I'm sure it's difficult but with proper planning redundancy is not the end of the world either. I think it's safe to assume that you think that having outgoings that are anything from 95% - 105% of your income is perfectly acceptable and it's that attitude that people are struggling so much from.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:18 pm  

Enicomb wrote:

Sorry, but I'm paid enough, because I budgeted it and live within my means. Something a good portion of people seem unable to do...

It's difficult to budget for, say, a 15% hike in domestic fuel bills – especially when your pay has been frozen (ie cut) for a couple of years or so, or your employer is looking to actually slash your pay (sack you and then rehire on far worse terms).

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:59 pm  

Mintball wrote:

It's difficult to budget for, say, a 15% hike in domestic fuel bills – especially when your pay has been frozen (ie cut) for a couple of years or so, or your employer is looking to actually slash your pay (sack you and then rehire on far worse terms).

No, if you're Enicomb, you'll already have built-in to your reserves calculation any such contingency. If you didn't, you're a profligate fool who deserves no sympathy.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:59 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

... They still have a similar thing in Norway and they fund it from the revenues generated by Statoil...

In Alaska they were (at least until recently and maybe still are) paying dividends on the oil direct to individual households.
Bunch of pinkos, those Alaskans.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:19 pm  

Enicomb wrote:

Oh and no doubt you'll sight redundancy again, yes it's largely out of your hands if it happens to you, but, and I know this from a colleague who was made redundant, life doesn't end. He didn't get another job for 18 months, he took out a 10k bank loan to cover himself and well as using his redundancy pay and was never under threat of defaulting on his mortgage (which I know he was already pushed to cover). Yes I'm sure it's difficult but with proper planning redundancy is not the end of the world either.

Presumably he had to leave his wife and kids in the bank vault as security - or are you seriously suggesting that if I fill in an application form for a loan from my current bank this afternoon and declare myself as unemployed they'll happily divvy up the £10K ?

I'll tell you without trying - Santander won't.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:16 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

Presumably he had to leave his wife and kids in the bank vault as security - or are you seriously suggesting that if I fill in an application form for a loan from my current bank this afternoon and declare myself as unemployed they'll happily divvy up the £10K ?

I'll tell you without trying - Santander won't.

TBH his whole post had so many holes in it I got bored and didnt even bother getting to the end of it.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:59 pm  

Taking out a 10k bank loan whilst unemployed! Comedy gold!

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:49 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: It is what it is. I can't help how you take it. If it distresses you, maybe you should have taken out CBT cover before venturing out on a public forum. Because obviously you are paid enough, and some are not. Millions have nothing left at the end of the week, and a high percentage of them have no mortgage as they are in rented. So no, it really isn't. Oh yeah. http://www.lovemoney.com/news/scams-and-rip-offs/rip-offs/1905/avoid-rip-off-redundancy-insurance. Plus as I mentioned ealier, not only were you paid enough to cover the above, clearly you had even enough surplus dosh to pay redundancy insurance premiums. Self explanatory, really. You have been fortunate in many respects, and seem oblivious to the existence of the millions that are not so lucky. I agree wholeheartedly with this post (and subsequent ones) but must take issue with your point about Redundancy Insurance. I have Redundancy Insurance and it is relatively cheap, covers the important things and in today's uncertain world is pretty much essential. The article provided was written in 2008 and is no longer relevant - "A good choice is to put your emergency cash in a high-interest savings account such as the market-leader, Kaupthing Edge Savings which currently pays 6.55% AER on easy access savings." Good luck with that.....

Ferocious Aardvark wrote: It is what it is. I can't help how you take it. If it distresses you, maybe you should have taken out CBT cover before venturing out on a public forum. Because obviously you are paid enough, and some are not. Millions have nothing left at the end of the week, and a high percentage of them have no mortgage as they are in rented. So no, it really isn't. Oh yeah. http://www.lovemoney.com/news/scams-and-rip-offs/rip-offs/1905/avoid-rip-off-redundancy-insurance. Plus as I mentioned ealier, not only were you paid enough to cover the above, clearly you had even enough surplus dosh to pay redundancy insurance premiums. Self explanatory, really. You have been fortunate in many respects, and seem oblivious to the existence of the millions that are not so lucky. I agree wholeheartedly with this post (and subsequent ones) but must take issue with your point about Redundancy Insurance. I have Redundancy Insurance and it is relatively cheap, covers the important things and in today's uncertain world is pretty much essential. The article provided was written in 2008 and is no longer relevant - "A good choice is to put your emergency cash in a high-interest savings account such as the market-leader, Kaupthing Edge Savings which currently pays 6.55% AER on easy access savings." Good luck with that.....