Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 21, 2017 10:26 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

No I don't but whilst people will go and work there these practises will continue - they will only improve if Ashley and his like cannot attract anyone to work there. Wages increase because of movement of people not inflation. How often do you have to pay more to replace a member of your team when they leave?

Don't blame the employer for paying as little as they can get away with - that is their job.

More utter bilge.

Every employer is governed by employment legislation and he (and any other employers riding roughshod over the law) should be properly dealt with.

To answer your second question.
It's usually worth paying a little bit more to get a "better" employee.
Decent attendance, decent standard of work and above all, trustworthiness and if you reward them properly, they will in turn, work hard and probably remain loyal.
The Mike Ashley style is to treat all workers as dispensable (a bit like the slaves and convicts that built the American railroads).

We keep getting back to your opinion that those in charge of the Country or in business should be allowed to do as they please, happy for them to break the law if it's for personal gain, either by avoiding their tax liabilities, under paying staff, claiming bogus expenses, employing illegal immigrants etc, etc

Maybe you are working on reverse psycology and you really want people to vote for Corbyn !

Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 21, 2017 11:07 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

More utter bilge.

Every employer is governed by employment legislation and he (and any other employers riding roughshod over the law) should be properly dealt with.

To answer your second question.
It's usually worth paying a little bit more to get a "better" employee.
Decent attendance, decent standard of work and above all, trustworthiness and if you reward them properly, they will in turn, work hard and probably remain loyal.
The Mike Ashley style is to treat all workers as dispensable (a bit like the slaves and convicts that built the American railroads).

We keep getting back to your opinion that those in charge of the Country or in business should be allowed to do as they please, happy for them to break the law if it's for personal gain, either by avoiding their tax liabilities, under paying staff, claiming bogus expenses, employing illegal immigrants etc, etc

Maybe you are working on reverse psycology and you really want people to vote for Corbyn !

Business has the duty to get the best value it can extract from its employees it doesn't mean that you have to pay the lowest wages. It doesn't also mean you have to over pay either to get the best people.

The people that work/worked for Ashley are nothing like slaves and you know it - they can leave whenever they want its easy just walk out - nobody is going to shoot you.

Where have I ever said its OK to employee illegals, claiming bogus expenses - stop making things up

What I think is this - remuneration should be in line with the value add you bring to the organisation. Tax avoidance is a legal position if you don't like it change the law but you cannot do it in isolation - don't be naïve.

Most businesses don't mind paying CT provided its set at a reasonable level - why do you think the likes of Apple have an Irish HQ because they don't believe its correct to pay 35% of their profits to support inefficient government departments. If Labour put CT up to 26% they will get diminishing returns

Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 21, 2017 4:51 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: Business has the duty to get the best value it can extract from its employees it doesn't mean that you have to pay the lowest wages. It doesn't also mean you have to over pay either to get the best people. The people that work/worked for Ashley are nothing like slaves and you know it - they can leave whenever they want its easy just walk out - nobody is going to shoot you. Where have I ever said its OK to employee illegals, claiming bogus expenses - stop making things up What I think is this - remuneration should be in line with the value add you bring to the organisation. Tax avoidance is a legal position if you don't like it change the law but you cannot do it in isolation - don't be naïve. Most businesses don't mind paying CT provided its set at a reasonable level - why do you think the likes of Apple have an Irish HQ because they don't believe its correct to pay 35% of their profits to support inefficient government departments. If Labour put CT up to 26% they will get diminishing returns Hang on Tory boy You said it was ok for Ashley to pay BELOW the LEGAL MINIMUM WAGE and justified this by saying that it was because there were too many people for the number of jobs available, inferring that this made the employees disponible. Sorry pal but, this is just not acceptable. Its the MINIMUM wage FFS not a guideline As for his employees not being slaves, of course you are right. However, some of the draconian employment practices ie not allowing people time off for medical reasons. Even the committee of MP's said that some of his staff were not being treated as humans?: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de ... e-36855374 You are just in denial and its an unpleasant trait for someone to have in light of this particular company and to defend them is disgraceful but, carry on. After all it's a free country. As for tax avoidance, again, great. Mrs May has form of threatening to crack down on some of those companies but, as with most of her "form" her plans have yet to materialise: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/s ... n-10468062 I assume that you want the authorities to clamp down on benefit "cheats" but you are happy for those at the top of the food chain to please themselves, because "it's legal". No hypocrisy there then

Sal Paradise wrote: Business has the duty to get the best value it can extract from its employees it doesn't mean that you have to pay the lowest wages. It doesn't also mean you have to over pay either to get the best people. The people that work/worked for Ashley are nothing like slaves and you know it - they can leave whenever they want its easy just walk out - nobody is going to shoot you. Where have I ever said its OK to employee illegals, claiming bogus expenses - stop making things up What I think is this - remuneration should be in line with the value add you bring to the organisation. Tax avoidance is a legal position if you don't like it change the law but you cannot do it in isolation - don't be naïve. Most businesses don't mind paying CT provided its set at a reasonable level - why do you think the likes of Apple have an Irish HQ because they don't believe its correct to pay 35% of their profits to support inefficient government departments. If Labour put CT up to 26% they will get diminishing returns Hang on Tory boy You said it was ok for Ashley to pay BELOW the LEGAL MINIMUM WAGE and justified this by saying that it was because there were too many people for the number of jobs available, inferring that this made the employees disponible. Sorry pal but, this is just not acceptable. Its the MINIMUM wage FFS not a guideline As for his employees not being slaves, of course you are right. However, some of the draconian employment practices ie not allowing people time off for medical reasons. Even the committee of MP's said that some of his staff were not being treated as humans?: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de ... e-36855374 You are just in denial and its an unpleasant trait for someone to have in light of this particular company and to defend them is disgraceful but, carry on. After all it's a free country. As for tax avoidance, again, great. Mrs May has form of threatening to crack down on some of those companies but, as with most of her "form" her plans have yet to materialise: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/s ... n-10468062 I assume that you want the authorities to clamp down on benefit "cheats" but you are happy for those at the top of the food chain to please themselves, because "it's legal". No hypocrisy there then

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 22, 2017 8:13 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Most businesses don't mind paying CT

How very philanthropic of them - while they benefit from education, infrastructure and the welfare system to subsidise the low wages of many employees; it's nice that they 'don't mind' paying CT.

Meanwhile - the average poll ratings this weekend show that the Tory lead is down to single figures, and Labour have had another excellent week, with the Tory manifesto putting off even their own traditional voters, containing a £40bn black hole that even Andrew Marr couldn't ignore; and John McDonnel absolutely destroying the bumbling Damian Green over his own multi million pound windfall off the back of water privatisation. And to top it off, Jeremy Corbyn, The Libertines warm-up act, announces this morning that student fees for those kids starting Uni this September will be cancelled - which is likely to create an even bigger surge in young people registering to vote before today's deadline.

The fear of the establishment is writ large in a weekend of smears about 'supporting' the IRA, despite him clearly saying nothing of the sort.

Game on...?

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 22, 2017 9:14 am  

bren2k wrote:

How very philanthropic of them - while they benefit from education, infrastructure and the welfare system to subsidise the low wages of many employees; it's nice that they 'don't mind' paying CT.

Meanwhile - the average poll ratings this weekend show that the Tory lead is down to single figures, and Labour have had another excellent week, with the Tory manifesto putting off even their own traditional voters, containing a £40bn black hole that even Andrew Marr couldn't ignore; and John McDonnel absolutely destroying the bumbling Damian Green over his own multi million pound windfall off the back of water privatisation. And to top it off, Jeremy Corbyn, The Libertines warm-up act, announces this morning that student fees for those kids starting Uni this September will be cancelled - which is likely to create an even bigger surge in young people registering to vote before today's deadline.

The fear of the establishment is writ large in a weekend of smears about 'supporting' the IRA, despite him clearly saying nothing of the sort.

Game on...?

Spot on Bren. You can always tell when the establishment is worried about something. The ridiculous smears start. Whether it's the attacks on Milliband's dad, or Corbyn being described as weak or a pacifist for not wanting to destroy all life on the planet, or suggesting that maybe we talk to people who's country we've invaded rather than shoot them.

The latest demand of him is that he should say that the IRA alone were the cause of the troubles and deaths in Northern Ireland. Which for anyone over the age of 5 is a plainly ludicrous position to hold.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 22, 2017 10:18 am  

wrencat1873 wrote: Hang on Tory boy You said it was ok for Ashley to pay BELOW the LEGAL MINIMUM WAGE and justified this by saying that it was because there were too many people for the number of jobs available, inferring that this made the employees disponible. Sorry pal but, this is just not acceptable. Its the MINIMUM wage FFS not a guideline As for his employees not being slaves, of course you are right. However, some of the draconian employment practices ie not allowing people time off for medical reasons. Even the committee of MP's said that some of his staff were not being treated as humans?: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de ... e-36855374 You are just in denial and its an unpleasant trait for someone to have in light of this particular company and to defend them is disgraceful but, carry on. After all it's a free country. As for tax avoidance, again, great. Mrs May has form of threatening to crack down on some of those companies but, as with most of her "form" her plans have yet to materialise: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/s ... n-10468062 I assume that you want the authorities to clamp down on benefit "cheats" but you are happy for those at the top of the food chain to please themselves, because "it's legal". No hypocrisy there then Where have I said that benefit cheats should be clamped down on? If Ashley is not paying the legal minimum wage that is out of order - and he should be dealt with accordingly. Nobody forced these people to work for Ashley there are plenty of jobs in RDCs in that area and that seems to be a something you are struggling to accept. If nobody was willing to work for Ashley guess what T&Cs would have to change. You can't go - on the one hand its a legal requirement to pay the minimum wage but its not OK to follow the law in terms of paying tax because you earn a lot of money - you can't have it both ways. Is that not in your words hypocritical

wrencat1873 wrote: Hang on Tory boy You said it was ok for Ashley to pay BELOW the LEGAL MINIMUM WAGE and justified this by saying that it was because there were too many people for the number of jobs available, inferring that this made the employees disponible. Sorry pal but, this is just not acceptable. Its the MINIMUM wage FFS not a guideline As for his employees not being slaves, of course you are right. However, some of the draconian employment practices ie not allowing people time off for medical reasons. Even the committee of MP's said that some of his staff were not being treated as humans?: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-de ... e-36855374 You are just in denial and its an unpleasant trait for someone to have in light of this particular company and to defend them is disgraceful but, carry on. After all it's a free country. As for tax avoidance, again, great. Mrs May has form of threatening to crack down on some of those companies but, as with most of her "form" her plans have yet to materialise: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/s ... n-10468062 I assume that you want the authorities to clamp down on benefit "cheats" but you are happy for those at the top of the food chain to please themselves, because "it's legal". No hypocrisy there then Where have I said that benefit cheats should be clamped down on? If Ashley is not paying the legal minimum wage that is out of order - and he should be dealt with accordingly. Nobody forced these people to work for Ashley there are plenty of jobs in RDCs in that area and that seems to be a something you are struggling to accept. If nobody was willing to work for Ashley guess what T&Cs would have to change. You can't go - on the one hand its a legal requirement to pay the minimum wage but its not OK to follow the law in terms of paying tax because you earn a lot of money - you can't have it both ways. Is that not in your words hypocritical

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 22, 2017 10:29 am  

bren2k wrote:

How very philanthropic of them - while they benefit from education, infrastructure and the welfare system to subsidise the low wages of many employees; it's nice that they 'don't mind' paying CT.

Meanwhile - the average poll ratings this weekend show that the Tory lead is down to single figures, and Labour have had another excellent week, with the Tory manifesto putting off even their own traditional voters, containing a £40bn black hole that even Andrew Marr couldn't ignore; and John McDonnel absolutely destroying the bumbling Damian Green over his own multi million pound windfall off the back of water privatisation. And to top it off, Jeremy Corbyn, The Libertines warm-up act, announces this morning that student fees for those kids starting Uni this September will be cancelled - which is likely to create an even bigger surge in young people registering to vote before today's deadline.

The fear of the establishment is writ large in a weekend of smears about 'supporting' the IRA, despite him clearly saying nothing of the sort.

Game on...?

Labour are gaining and the Tories need to get a grip or they will lose - problem for the Tories is the campaign is about May and as soon as they let other MPs out into the public they don't perform because they are not engaged. We haven't seen Hammond this whole campaign.

I would agree the Tories have shot themselves in the foot with not costing their promises - that is just arrogant thinking this was a foregone conclusion. Labour's proposed spending plans are madness and not deliverable.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 22, 2017 11:30 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Labour are gaining and the Tories need to get a grip or they will lose - problem for the Tories is the campaign is about May and as soon as they let other MPs out into the public they don't perform because they are not engaged. We haven't seen Hammond this whole campaign.

I would agree the Tories have shot themselves in the foot with not costing their promises - that is just arrogant thinking this was a foregone conclusion. Labour's proposed spending plans are madness and not deliverable.

Looks like Mrs May is for turning unlike the last female PM. Well a U-turn anyway.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 22, 2017 11:33 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Labour's proposed spending plans are madness and not deliverable.

You mean the spending plans that have been fully costed?

A very different economy for sure, but by no means undeliverable.

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 22, 2017 11:58 am  

bren2k wrote:

You mean the spending plans that have been fully costed?

A very different economy for sure, but by no means undeliverable.

I assume Sal has himself done a full costing of Labour's manifesto to be able to describe it as "not deliverable" and "madness".