Re: Cancellation of passports : Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:17 am  

West Leeds Rhino wrote:

So if Palestinians aren't allowed to 'poke the bear' what do you suggest they do about Israel stealing their land and restricting entry/exit of the Gaza strip, bearing in mind that even though the international community condemns it, nobody seems to want to do anything about it?

Where did I say they weren't 'allowed'? They can do what they like, but let's look at the status quo: Hamas begin one of their periods of violence and launch hundreds of rockets into Israel. Israel, as they always do and always promise they will, hit back ten times harder with air strikes and often ground activity.

The fact is, far more Palestinians will die than Israelis when theis cycle comes around yet again - what's the count now - around 90 to 0 Israelis? Now, even though I assume you didn't ignore it the first time round I'll say it again - that doesn't make it right and my sympathies lie with the Palestinians - but this cycle of violence is damaging, deadly and completely and utterly pointless. Hamas seem to rely on dead Palestinians to garner international support, Israel adhere to their policy of hitting back harder than Hamas ever can. They're as bad as each other.

Generations of politicians, UN sec-generals, military leaders and other international brokers have failed to solve the problem. What's the answer? I don't know. Realistically, I'm not sure anything can be done. Israel are determined to defend (and expand) their people and borders. Hamas and the other groups are determined to kill Israelis with the ultimate and presently unrealistic goal of taking back their lands. Neither will budge.

What do you suggest they do about it?

Re: Cancellation of passports : Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:59 pm  

According to the BBC website Hamas are hoping that reports and images of wounded and dead Palestinians will elicit both sympathy and funds from supporting/linked groups across the wider area.
But that remains, like a lot of this thread, as speculation.

Re: Cancellation of passports : Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:51 pm  

Israel should let a few rockets hit, let the 'score' get a little bit less one-sided. They'd probably get a bit more support that way and also all the bandwagoners on my Facebook/Twitter timelines looking for a "cause du jour" would have a harder time of deciding how to display their outrage and who to direct it towards.

#StopKony2012 #BringBackOurGirls #FreeGaza

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:49 am  

Adamjk wrote:

Israel should let a few rockets hit, let the 'score' get a little bit less one-sided. They'd probably get a bit more support that way and also all the bandwagoners on my Facebook/Twitter timelines looking for a "cause du jour" would have a harder time of deciding how to display their outrage and who to direct it towards.

#StopKony2012 #BringBackOurGirls #FreeGaza

Israel agree to a cease fire, stop bombing just as the cease fire begins then get upset as Palestine are retaliating as the cease fire starts even though they weren't even consulted or told about the cease fire. Have Israel now managed to gain higher ground on the issue or has the "cease fire" been seen for what it really was?

If they both did agree to a cease fire....again, how long would it be before normal service resumed?

What real options are available to halting the violence between the two?

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:12 am  

West Leeds Rhino wrote:

Israel agree to a cease fire, stop bombing just as the cease fire begins then get upset as Palestine are retaliating as the cease fire starts even though they weren't even consulted or told about the cease fire. Have Israel now managed to gain higher ground on the issue or has the "cease fire" been seen for what it really was?

If they both did agree to a cease fire....again, how long would it be before normal service resumed?

What real options are available to halting the violence between the two?

You've asked similar questions twice now, and I asked you directly in return a few posts back.

Perhaps you could try answering the question yourself. Don't be another Chris28, full of critical questions but never any meaningful suggestions.

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:28 am  

Cronus wrote:

You've asked similar questions twice now, and I asked you directly in return a few posts back.

Perhaps you could try answering the question yourself. Don't be another Chris28, full of critical questions but never any meaningful suggestions.

I'll have a go then.

Instead of allowing ever more settlers to uproot and evict Palestinians, why don't Israel retreat back to the pre-1967 borders, as mandated for years now by the UN?

Maybe once they do that and assuming Hamas continue to "attack" Israel, they will have some tangible evidence that certain Palestinians do not want peace at all

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:03 am  

cod'ead wrote:

I'll have a go then.

Instead of allowing ever more settlers to uproot and evict Palestinians, why don't Israel retreat back to the pre-1967 borders, as mandated for years now by the UN?

Maybe once they do that and assuming Hamas continue to "attack" Israel, they will have some tangible evidence that certain Palestinians do not want peace at all

That would be ideal. Except it's a fantasy. The only way Israel will retreat to those borders is if the surrounding countries attacked and beat them back. They tried that once before and Israel are considerably more powerful now.

So, avoiding fantastical solutions and given the actual realities of the situation - neither Israel nor the Palestinians/Hamas will budge - what can be done?

I think I was pretty close when I said very little. The only effective action for me would be a complete reversal of US support and severe sanctions from the entire international community - economic sanctions, a total travel ban in or out of Israel, a complete trading ban, etc. But that won't happen either. The US is too deeply tied to Israel and the international community is weak.

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:41 am  

Cronus wrote:

That would be ideal. Except it's a fantasy. The only way Israel will retreat to those borders is if the surrounding countries attacked and beat them back. They tried that once before and Israel are considerably more powerful now.

So, avoiding fantastical solutions and given the actual realities of the situation - neither Israel nor the Palestinians/Hamas will budge - what can be done?

I think I was pretty close when I said very little. The only effective action for me would be a complete reversal of US support and severe sanctions from the entire international community - economic sanctions, a total travel ban in or out of Israel, a complete trading ban, etc. But that won't happen either. The US is too deeply tied to Israel and the international community is weak.

So we just allow the bully to keep bullying its smaller neighbour?

Given Israel's past, it seems more than a little perverse that it is determined to visit the same privations on its neighbours that its own people suffered many years ago

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:57 am  

Cronus wrote:

You've asked similar questions twice now, and I asked you directly in return a few posts back.

Perhaps you could try answering the question yourself. Don't be another Chris28, full of critical questions but never any meaningful suggestions.

My suggestion would be the same as cod'ead's.

My take on it is that most of it has stemmed due to Israel simply seeing how much land they can steal in one go without the international community sanctioning them (if it would even happen). Slowly but surely expanding.

All of the recent instability in the region has only assisted Israel in that the governments are so busy sorting their own countries out after 'uprisings' that they haven't got the time or capacity to give to the matter, whether that would help or not.

The problem now is that the situation has gone on for so long that I don't think Hamas will settle for simply claiming back their land anymore. There has been so much bloodshed and so many prisoners taken that I don't believe they can ever be neighbours.

What is a massive shame is that there are successful projects between the two including, but not limited to, a successful joint scientific venture. If only the leaders of Israel weren't so hell bent on grabbing land, and both so excited by rockets.

Re: Cancellation of passports : Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:02 pm  

The American sponsored Isrealis are doing nothing but committing Genocide, but sure, believe all the lies spouted by the western media. Its not hard to find impartial reports, detailing the atrocities committed by Isreal towards innocent palestinians. Yes, Hamas are what you would call terrorists but aiming rockets at a 3 story building in order to kill one hamas member is despicable.

#OpIsrael