Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:58 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

And yet, it's the tightening of some of the EU financial rules which is the real driver behind Brexit.

Not at all - it is what the EU will become over the next 10-30 years and the lack of influence nation states will have on their own rule making that is really at stake here. The EU simply want a central body of unelected bureaucrats i.e. the council and the commission to effectively rule the EU and the last thing they want is pesky individual nations throwing spanners in the works.

I see you have failed to comment on McDonald - but you lefties all want to be comrades and not functioning members of society - be careful what you wish for.

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:26 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Not at all - it is what the EU will become over the next 10-30 years and the lack of influence nation states will have on their own rule making that is really at stake here. The EU simply want a central body of unelected bureaucrats i.e. the council and the commission to effectively rule the EU and the last thing they want is pesky individual nations throwing spanners in the works.

I see you have failed to comment on McDonald - but you lefties all want to be comrades and not functioning members of society - be careful what you wish for.

I'm no fan of McDonald (or Corbyn), you will see that from many of my previous posts.
However, equally, I'm not falling for the Tory 3 card trick either.

We've had 10 years of austerity and then we are supposed to be happy that police numbers will be reversed and put back to where they were 10 years ago ??
And we supposed to be happy that the NHS, despite "record funding" is still going to be worse than when it was taken over by the Tories 10 years ago ??
We have a Prime Minister that is playing games and cant mutter a word without telling lies.
Even his "oven ready" deal can not be finalised by the end of next year and we are therefore being asked to accept a "no deal" exit at the end of 2020, when all of a sudden ,he will blame those "nasty" Europeans and probably suggest that "I didn't want to leave with no deal but.....)

I'm hacked off that Labour are incapable of properly calling this bunch of charlatans out and tat with Corbyn (and McDonald) at the helm, will allow the spectre of Brexit and for The Tories to gain another 5 years in power.

As I said, to have the promise of being back where we were 10 years ago is just depressing and all with the likelihood of another recession to have to deal with.

This election is all rather surreal, with many well respected Tories, Clark, Hessletine, Osborne etc now suggesting that their supporters vote for other parties.
Many of these of course are pro European but, it's sad that the centre left of the Tories and centre right of Labour have all been annexed and we now have the two main parties at polar opposites of the political spectrum.
The voice of reason has disappeared from both and we will shortly be ruled by politicians who would have been considered "extreme" 25/30 years ago.

Progress ? I dont think so.

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:51 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I'm no fan of McDonald (or Corbyn), you will see that from many of my previous posts.
However, equally, I'm not falling for the Tory 3 card trick either.

We've had 10 years of austerity and then we are supposed to be happy that police numbers will be reversed and put back to where they were 10 years ago ??
And we supposed to be happy that the NHS, despite "record funding" is still going to be worse than when it was taken over by the Tories 10 years ago ??
We have a Prime Minister that is playing games and cant mutter a word without telling lies.
Even his "oven ready" deal can not be finalised by the end of next year and we are therefore being asked to accept a "no deal" exit at the end of 2020, when all of a sudden ,he will blame those "nasty" Europeans and probably suggest that "I didn't want to leave with no deal but.....)

I'm hacked off that Labour are incapable of properly calling this bunch of charlatans out and tat with Corbyn (and McDonald) at the helm, will allow the spectre of Brexit and for The Tories to gain another 5 years in power.

As I said, to have the promise of being back where we were 10 years ago is just depressing and all with the likelihood of another recession to have to deal with.

This election is all rather surreal, with many well respected Tories, Clark, Hessletine, Osborne etc now suggesting that their supporters vote for other parties.
Many of these of course are pro European but, it's sad that the centre left of the Tories and centre right of Labour have all been annexed and we now have the two main parties at polar opposites of the political spectrum.
The voice of reason has disappeared from both and we will shortly be ruled by politicians who would have been considered "extreme" 25/30 years ago.

Progress ? I dont think so.

Why have we had years of austerity - because the Tories inherited a complete financial mess from the last Labour government. When things are so catastrophic something has to give and it takes a lot longer to put in right than it does to get into the mess in the first place.

As is often the case in life you have to go backwards before you can go forwards again. Now there is a chance of some progress.

You also have Labour grandees such as Blair saying don't vote for Corbyn and then you have the Chief Rabbi calling him out too? Seems Johnson is not the only one shy of explaining himself.

Brexit he has a deal than can be progressed to the next stage quickly - the Tories are the only party that can promise that. Will we leave with no deal - a distinct possibility - everyone knows the crunch doesn't come until the 11th hour and if the remainers hadn't cut his legs off Boris would have done a better deal than he did.

The NHS needs a fundamental review - what do we actually expect of it - once we have decided that then agree how best to fund it. You will never be able to put sufficient money to do all things for all people.

Personally for all their failings are there are many still believe a government that encourages business is better than one that want to take control back into the public sector - that's a personal view.

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:03 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Why have we had years of austerity - because the Tories inherited a complete financial mess from the last Labour government. When things are so catastrophic something has to give and it takes a lot longer to put in right than it does to get into the mess in the first place.

As is often the case in life you have to go backwards before you can go forwards again. Now there is a chance of some progress.

You also have Labour grandees such as Blair saying don't vote for Corbyn and then you have the Chief Rabbi calling him out too? Seems Johnson is not the only one shy of explaining himself.

Brexit he has a deal than can be progressed to the next stage quickly - the Tories are the only party that can promise that. Will we leave with no deal - a distinct possibility - everyone knows the crunch doesn't come until the 11th hour and if the remainers hadn't cut his legs off Boris would have done a better deal than he did.

The NHS needs a fundamental review - what do we actually expect of it - once we have decided that then agree how best to fund it. You will never be able to put sufficient money to do all things for all people.

Personally for all their failings are there are many still believe a government that encourages business is better than one that want to take control back into the public sector - that's a personal view.

Interesting thoughts on the need for Austerity.
Government borrowing as a % of GDP is higher today than when the Tories came to power 10 years ago and yet, now, they can spend freely because "borrowing is under control" ??
As for Brexit, we both know that, depending on whether the Tories gain a big enough overall majority, the UK will leave with "no deal" at the end of 2020, blaming the EU for not giving them everything that they want.
You will have noticed that there will no longer be anyone willing to go against Boris/Farage/Cummings - a party stacked with yes men and the (significant)move to the right may well mean that the "oven ready" deal, never actually gets "baked".

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:23 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Why have we had years of austerity - because the Tories inherited a complete financial mess from the last Labour government. When things are so catastrophic something has to give and it takes a lot longer to put in right than it does to get into the mess in the first place.

This has been thoroughly debunked, over and over again; the need for austerity was the biggest lie ever told.

"Politicians, but also the media, told us the government had to cut spending to prevent another financial disaster. Most economists disagreed with this theory. There was never even a chance of a financial crisis in the years after 2010, and even when that became clear to everyone, austerity continued. I estimate the average household lost resources worth £10,000 as a result of this disastrous policy, and many suffered much more than the average."

Simon Wren-Lewis - emeritus professor of economics and fellow of Merton College, University of Oxford

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:34 pm  

bren2k wrote:

This has been thoroughly debunked, over and over again; the need for austerity was the biggest lie ever told.

"Politicians, but also the media, told us the government had to cut spending to prevent another financial disaster. Most economists disagreed with this theory. There was never even a chance of a financial crisis in the years after 2010, and even when that became clear to everyone, austerity continued. I estimate the average household lost resources worth £10,000 as a result of this disastrous policy, and many suffered much more than the average."

Simon Wren-Lewis - emeritus professor of economics and fellow of Merton College, University of Oxford

And the biggest "laugh" of all is that we are all expected to bow and be grateful to Boris for promising (an interesting word to use for a perpetual liar) to spend and restore education and policing to where it was 10 years ago, never mind where it would / should have been today had spending carried on as it was.
Austerity was the Tories "big chance" to slash public spending, which, after all, doesnt really affect your average Tory voter (apart from some of their older voters, of course).
The utter disgrace of pushing more people into poverty in order to give tax cuts to those who need them least is just disgraceful and to hear voters wanting to get Boris into power because they "like him", makes me vomit.

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:37 pm  

bren2k wrote:

This has been thoroughly debunked, over and over again; the need for austerity was the biggest lie ever told.

"Politicians, but also the media, told us the government had to cut spending to prevent another financial disaster. Most economists disagreed with this theory. There was never even a chance of a financial crisis in the years after 2010, and even when that became clear to everyone, austerity continued. I estimate the average household lost resources worth £10,000 as a result of this disastrous policy, and many suffered much more than the average."

Simon Wren-Lewis - emeritus professor of economics and fellow of Merton College, University of Oxford

" most " economists that must mean" some " agreed the policy was needed. Who is right depends on your political view. A quick Google on Simon wren-Lewis gets it wrong again might help

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:03 pm  

The catastrophe was not of Labour making unless they were also running the American economy at the time. They chose to save the banks in order to protect people’s money.
I would remind you that the Conservatives promised to balance the books within four years and to protect our AAA rating neither of which they did. The continuation of austerity was a political choice.

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:09 pm  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

The catastrophe was not of Labour making unless they were also running the American economy at the time. They chose to save the banks in order to protect people’s money.
I would remind you that the Conservatives promised to balance the books within four years and to protect our AAA rating neither of which they did. The continuation of austerity was a political choice.

Not like the Tories to miss their targets and then blame someone else, especially with those at the helm of the current shambles.
Boris "liar" Johnson, Michael "back stabbing" Gove, Jeremy "love the NHS" Hunt - they certainly deserve each others company, that's for sure.

Re: General Election campaign : Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:01 pm  

Austerity?

No Austerity in the board room guys, “filled us boots”.