Re: New sides : Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:54 am  

Fair points to a degree - just note for those of us (000's/10,000's/100,000's/millions?) who have fallen through the cracks and got nothing - am I expected to repay back the loans made out to people & companies in the future in my tax rate? Hardly fair. I was made redundant in January for which a got an amount that took me a smidgen above the threshold for UVC and this has been the worse time ever to look at the job market.. I will l be making a claim for UVC soon, obviously I'd much prefer to work as would everyone at the moment.

Re: New sides : Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:32 pm  

Mash Butty wrote:

Fair points to a degree - just note for those of us (000's/10,000's/100,000's/millions?) who have fallen through the cracks and got nothing - am I expected to repay back the loans made out to people & companies in the future in my tax rate? Hardly fair. I was made redundant in January for which a got an amount that took me a smidgen above the threshold for UVC and this has been the worse time ever to look at the job market.. I will l be making a claim for UVC soon, obviously I'd much prefer to work as would everyone at the moment.

Only the same as me paying tax to educate and feed other people's kids etc. It seems that you are a socialist only when you are on the receiving end?

Re: New sides : Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:23 pm  

wotsupcas wrote:

Only the same as me paying tax to educate and feed other people's kids etc. It seems that you are a socialist only when you are on the receiving end?

Paid all income taxes since Jan 1993 & I haven't been bailed out.. quite the opposite, poop on now and I will be poop on later

Re: New sides : Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:02 pm  

Mash Butty wrote:

Paid all income taxes since Jan 1993 & I haven't been bailed out.. quite the opposite, poop on now and I will be poop on later

My point remains. You said its "hardly fair" that you should contribute to people in need, hardly a socialist attitude is it? Or is it only fair if you're getting a slice of the action?

Re: New sides : Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:58 pm  

wotsupcas wrote:

My point remains. You said its "hardly fair" that you should contribute to people in need, hardly a socialist attitude is it? Or is it only fair if you're getting a slice of the action?

Therein lies the issue with socialism - everyone is equal apart from those who are more equal than the rest. All those on here are happy to spout the rhetoric as long as their lifestyle is not impacted in ensuring others get a leg up. Socialism is about dragging everyone down - its the only way to achieve equality as there has to be a big number to support the ruling class.

Re: New sides : Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:14 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Therein lies the issue with socialism - everyone is equal apart from those who are more equal than the rest. All those on here are happy to spout the rhetoric as long as their lifestyle is not impacted in ensuring others get a leg up. Socialism is about dragging everyone down - its the only way to achieve equality as there has to be a big number to support the ruling class.

What a ridiculous statement - and is a large part of the reason you're perceived as an amusing novelty act; you can't possibly say that, any more than I can say that *everyone* who supports the Tories is a right wing nutjob who cares more about their personal wealth than the lives of their fellow humans.

[Mild Rover]

Re: New sides : Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:48 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Therein lies the issue with socialism - everyone is equal apart from those who are more equal than the rest. All those on here are happy to spout the rhetoric as long as their lifestyle is not impacted in ensuring others get a leg up. Socialism is about dragging everyone down - its the only way to achieve equality as there has to be a big number to support the ruling class.

Socialism is about communal ownership and responsibility, about co-operating more than competing.

Other countries (like all of our northern European neighbours) achieve greater equality in terms of outcomes and opportunities without dragging everyone down, and indeed without full blooded socialism. Possibly by virtue of not having such rigid and institutionalised class systems or financialized economies.

Re: New sides : Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:57 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Socialism is about communal ownership and responsibility, about co-operating more than competing.

Other countries (like all of our northern European neighbours) achieve greater equality in terms of outcomes and opportunities without dragging everyone down, and indeed without full blooded socialism. Possibly by virtue of not having such rigid and institutionalised class systems or financialized economies.

Re: New sides : Fri May 01, 2020 8:13 am  

bren2k wrote:

What a ridiculous statement - and is a large part of the reason you're perceived as an amusing novelty act; you can't possibly say that, any more than I can say that *everyone* who supports the Tories is a right wing nutjob who cares more about their personal wealth than the lives of their fellow humans.

I think nobody is more of a novelty act than you - nothing is ever your fault always somebody else's PPE is just the latest in your neat deflection technique - look in the mirror and seriously ask the question - can I really walk on the surface of the River Aire because that is how you come across

If you believe Maslow and most experts give weight to his writings - altruism is a pretty high up need - once your personal/family situation is secure.

Re: New sides : Fri May 01, 2020 8:19 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Socialism is about communal ownership and responsibility, about co-operating more than competing.

Other countries (like all of our northern European neighbours) achieve greater equality in terms of outcomes and opportunities without dragging everyone down, and indeed without full blooded socialism. Possibly by virtue of not having such rigid and institutionalised class systems or financialized economies.

That's the theory - the reality is the higher echelons of a Socialist society have a far better standard of living than the average - that has to be funded, the average standard of living would increase if the cost of running the state in a socialist environment wasn't so costly. Name me one Socialist country where the standard of living is even a little bit higher than an average capitalist/mixed economy where the wealth is generated by commercial activity e.g. Sweden/Germany/UK/Belgium/Switzerland etc.