Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:35 pm  

Reading today's Times, my understanding is the Judgment and the Rules say 2 totally different things, which has caused some of the confusion.

May claims to have confirmation from the ECHR that her interpretation of the date is correct, however when pressed she could not produce any sort of documentary evidence to support her position.

All very embarrassing, and we are continually told that we are not actually bound by the ECHR, so all the fuss seems to be because we want to be seen to be playing fair.

We could just do what France and Italy do; ignore Judgments we don't like, deport said individual, and pay some measly compensation when the ECHR kicks up a fuss.

Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:41 pm  

Him wrote:

I...
Which is largely irrelevant anyway as, as many people have said, a phone call and a bit of caution could have avoided the entire c0ck-up. Theresa May & HMG's desire to appear tough on this issue is the one and only cause of this ridiculous situation.

They could certainly have avoided the farrago, which has been hugely embarrassing (to say the least), even if May is right.

But, the absurd claim that a phone call could have avoided it is just dumb. A phone call to whom? Why would the person on the other end of the line even know? Anyway, the simple fact is that no court offers legal advice. The person who takes your call will try to be helpful, but if you want to legal advice - ask a lawyer to advise you. And that way at least you can sue them or sack them if they advise wrong.

Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:47 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

But, the absurd claim that a phone call could have avoided it is just dumb. A phone call to whom? Why would the person on the other end of the line even know? Anyway, the simple fact is that no court offers legal advice. The person who takes your call will try to be helpful, but if you want to legal advice - ask a lawyer to advise you. And that way at least you can sue them or sack them if they advise wrong.

The people at the immigration tribunal have told me on numerous occasions that the calculation is up to me, and they will not tell me an appeal deadline, beyond the "5 days from X" guidance

Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:32 am  

To be fair to May (or any other Minister), they should be receiving accurate advice on details such as this from the ministry. Supposedly the role of Ministers is around policy, and civil servants are responsible for implementation. The problems tend to arise when Ministers decide that they should interfere in specific cases, often in direct contradiction to the advice they receive. I suspect some debates between senior civil servants and Ministers would make 'Yes Minister' look like a documentary.

Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:57 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

To be fair to May (or any other Minister), they should be receiving accurate advice on details such as this from the ministry. Supposedly the role of Ministers is around policy, and civil servants are responsible for implementation. [url]The problems tend to arise when Ministers decide that they should interfere in specific cases, often in direct contradiction to the advice they receive.[/url] I suspect some debates between senior civil servants and Ministers would make 'Yes Minister' look like a documentary.

That's the problem in a lot of cases tbh. Ministers "know best" and often ignore the advice they are given

Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:16 pm  

I see there are calls (particularly from Keith Vaz) for May to publish the advice she was given by Government lawyers.

Like that it going to happen. It would almost certainly be a waiver of legal advice privilege, and Quatada's lawyers could, potentially, get to see every single piece of advice she was given on the issue.

Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:30 pm  

Advice to ministers is normally exempt from FOI, isn't it?

Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:15 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

The people at the immigration tribunal have told me on numerous occasions that the calculation is up to me, and they will not tell me an appeal deadline, beyond the "5 days from X" guidance

They always confirm the dates to me, but I only need confirmation on the Home Office's deadlines, not my own

Re: So, can Theresa May count? : Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:33 pm  

Hopie wrote:

They always confirm the dates to me, but I only need confirmation on the Home Office's deadlines, not my own

That's what I meant, sorry for not being clear

Gillingham : Wed May 16, 2012 5:21 pm  

She looked like she was gonna start crying today when the coppers were giving her grief at their conference.