Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:46 am  

cod'ead wrote: If ever there was a case of religion attempting to trump common sense, then these three should be thrown out of office on the grounds that if lunatics cannot vote, they should certainly not be allowed to serve in Parliament. MPs demand ASA overturn ban on Healing on the Streets claim that god can heal through prayer They are now asking the ASA for scientific evidence that god cannot heal. They're even citing the case of Patrice Muamba At the time the Muamba story was being reported, I was surprised by the number of references to God and prayer. The line from Owen Coyle (I think) about all the prayers working was particularly stupid. What 'worked' was the quick thinking, fast actions and profound expertise of the medical staff involved and probably the greater than average fitness of the patient. If God had wanted him to pull through, why give him a potentially fatal heart condition in the first place?

cod'ead wrote: If ever there was a case of religion attempting to trump common sense, then these three should be thrown out of office on the grounds that if lunatics cannot vote, they should certainly not be allowed to serve in Parliament. MPs demand ASA overturn ban on Healing on the Streets claim that god can heal through prayer They are now asking the ASA for scientific evidence that god cannot heal. They're even citing the case of Patrice Muamba At the time the Muamba story was being reported, I was surprised by the number of references to God and prayer. The line from Owen Coyle (I think) about all the prayers working was particularly stupid. What 'worked' was the quick thinking, fast actions and profound expertise of the medical staff involved and probably the greater than average fitness of the patient. If God had wanted him to pull through, why give him a potentially fatal heart condition in the first place?

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:19 am  

cod'ead wrote: If ever there was a case of religion attempting to trump common sense, then these three should be thrown out of office on the grounds that if lunatics cannot vote, they should certainly not be allowed to serve in Parliament. MPs demand ASA overturn ban on Healing on the Streets claim that god can heal through prayer They are now asking the ASA for scientific evidence that god cannot heal. They're even citing the case of Patrice Muamba Surely it's up to the organisation making the claim to prove that god does heal?

cod'ead wrote: If ever there was a case of religion attempting to trump common sense, then these three should be thrown out of office on the grounds that if lunatics cannot vote, they should certainly not be allowed to serve in Parliament. MPs demand ASA overturn ban on Healing on the Streets claim that god can heal through prayer They are now asking the ASA for scientific evidence that god cannot heal. They're even citing the case of Patrice Muamba Surely it's up to the organisation making the claim to prove that god does heal?

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:42 am  

That story is giving me a face palm moment.

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:58 am  

cod'ead wrote: If ever there was a case of religion attempting to trump common sense, then these three should be thrown out of office on the grounds that if lunatics cannot vote, they should certainly not be allowed to serve in Parliament. MPs demand ASA overturn ban on Healing on the Streets claim that god can heal through prayer They are now asking the ASA for scientific evidence that god cannot heal. Reading that just makes you want to What these dimwits should know is that the burden of proof lies with the person making positive claim, without that condition you can make up just about any $h1t you like and then challenge people to prove you wrong. But, seeing as they are asking for empirical evidence, how about this Oh and a hurty hand getting better after someone has prayed over it is a fcuking anecdote not evidence. cod'ead wrote: They're even citing the case of Patrice Muamba What an egregious insult to the paramedics and doctors who worked for hours to save his life. They are most certainly unfit to hold public office

cod'ead wrote: If ever there was a case of religion attempting to trump common sense, then these three should be thrown out of office on the grounds that if lunatics cannot vote, they should certainly not be allowed to serve in Parliament. MPs demand ASA overturn ban on Healing on the Streets claim that god can heal through prayer They are now asking the ASA for scientific evidence that god cannot heal. Reading that just makes you want to What these dimwits should know is that the burden of proof lies with the person making positive claim, without that condition you can make up just about any $h1t you like and then challenge people to prove you wrong. But, seeing as they are asking for empirical evidence, how about this Oh and a hurty hand getting better after someone has prayed over it is a fcuking anecdote not evidence. cod'ead wrote: They're even citing the case of Patrice Muamba What an egregious insult to the paramedics and doctors who worked for hours to save his life. They are most certainly unfit to hold public office

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:22 pm  

Neil wrote:

... What an egregious insult to the paramedics and doctors who worked for hours to save his life.

Totally agree.

That entire episode, though, does make me wonder how many people genuinely believed that the prayers were having an impact. And also whether the country is going increasingly down this sort of route or whether that's just a perception?And is the whole issue of religion in the UK much different to anywhere else in Europe these days?

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:40 pm  

Many, many millennia ago, people used to light bonfires in the winter to encourage the sun to come back.
It worked every time.

Whaddya mean, it's not evidence?
It's as good as that which those MPs have.

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:45 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Neil wrote:

... What an egregious insult to the paramedics and doctors who worked for hours to save his life.

Totally agree.

That entire episode, though, does make me wonder how many people genuinely believed that the prayers were having an impact.

I have this vision of God sitting there on his throne making Muamba incrementally better for each prayer received. Whilst presumably ignoring all the prayers on behalf of starving African babies.

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:45 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

I have this vision of God sitting there on his throne making Muamba incrementally better for each prayer received. Whilst presumably ignoring all the prayers on behalf of starving African babies.

He's not ignoring them, fool, it's all in his plan that they should die horrible lingering deaths. Why don't people understand these simple points?

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:17 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Rock God X wrote:

I have this vision of God sitting there on his throne making Muamba incrementally better for each prayer received. Whilst presumably ignoring all the prayers on behalf of starving African babies.

He's not ignoring them, fool, it's all in his plan that they should die horrible lingering deaths. Why don't people understand these simple points?

That's what makes me laugh about the whole 'prayer works' hypothesis: everything that happens is supposedly part of God's divine plan, pre-ordained since the beginning of time - but if you ask him nicely enough he might change his mind.

Re: The Archbishop of Canterbury : Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:47 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

That's what makes me laugh about the whole 'prayer works' hypothesis: everything that happens is supposedly part of God's divine plan, pre-ordained since the beginning of time - but if you ask him nicely enough he might change his mind.

... which would then suggest that God didn't get it 'right' in the first place when pre-ordaining things. Which wouldn't then say much about God's godlikeness.