Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:57 pm  

Chris soon they will be "fully" like the rest of us and pay into a pension prior to taking there pay home. Its quite easy lots of people do it without the government doing it for you.

40% savings for me by paying into my pension at source-bargain

I see it as a benefit and one I will benefit from later in life

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:17 pm  

Dally wrote:

I do but they have abused their positions. They are on average paid more than non-public sector workers and on average enjoy much better pensions. Nothwithstanding the fact that they pay tax on their income they are still, of course, funded by the rest of society that is on average substantially poorer than them. Let's say a local authoity manager retires on a pension of £60,000 that's equivalent to a £1m + capital asset and their personal contributions will account for a modest part thereof Now there an awful lot of people in the public sector who are made millionaires like that (despite the usual matra about averages of £6,000 pa - still much more than lower).

If the public sector does not actually cost anything why is Greece, with its bloated public sector, bust and the UK so indebted?

What a load of twaddle. Lets quash a few of your "facts". My husband can earn more doing what he does in the private sector or self employed but likes where he is and is happy. My husband earns below the national average salary so how do you work out that society on average is substantially poorer than him? Local authority manager on £60,000, you don't know much do you? My father in law was a local area housing manager and was on much, much less then you quote. My husbands pension equates to just above minimum wage. Not really gold plated as to brass plated. Apart from that everything you've quoted from your muched loved Daily Mail is true. Well it has to be hasn't it because thats what the papers say?

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:17 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

What abuse of their positions are they guilty of?

Nice use of averages to support your argument too - on "average" paid more, which means some won't be, and the "average" of £6k pension per year, which means some won't be on anything like it, if your local authority manager is on a £60K pension. Have you ever tried to live on £6K a year?

Genuine question - how does a £60K pension = a £1m+ capital asset? I honestly don't know so need some assistance understanding that.

I never said the public sector doesn't cost anything, but unless you want to pay direct to abuse the doctors and nurses you have such a problem with, or get your debit card out when you want to report a crime to the police, or have a coin meter on your local street light, you have to pay for public services. If you don't like how "your" money is spent or think some public services should be scrapped, stand for election to the council and bring the system down from within.

When someone retires their pension benefits are usually secured by the scheme's trustees purchasing an annuity with insurers. A very good annuity rate for a 65 year old at present would be 6%, meaning it would cost £1m to secure a £60,000pa pension. In reality, some of the higher paid public sector employees have until recently been retiring in the early / mid-50s, which means their penson provision will have cost an awful lot more.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 pm  

Dally wrote:

When someone retires their pension benefits are usually secured by the scheme's trustees purchasing an annuity with insurers. A very good annuity rate for a 65 year old at present would be 6%, meaning it would cost £1m to secure a £60,000pa pension. In reality, some of the higher paid public sector employees have until recently been retiring in the early / mid-50s, which means their penson provision will have cost an awful lot more.

What percentage of public sector employees do you reckon are drawing £60k pa as a salary, let alone as a pension?

As usual, you're resorting to ill-informed hyperbole in an attempt to make your point, which does nothing but detract from whatever validity it may have had.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:30 pm  

Isn't the average public sector pension a "gold-plated and generous" £5,600 pa ?
Not exactly life-of-luxury is it?


To be clear to all, I don't work in the public sector.
My own private sector pension-pot is shot to ribbons, even the "experts" couldn't look after it.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:38 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

To be clear to all, I don't work in the public sector.
My own private sector pension-pot is shot to ribbons, even the "experts" couldn't look after it.

The "experts" who were looking after mine have given up and passed the buck to someone else

I seriously don't expect any of it to be left by the time I need it to live on, I'd be far better drawing it all out in cash today and putting it in a box under the bed, at least it would still all be there when I'm 65.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:44 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

The "experts" who were looking after mine have given up and passed the buck to someone else

I seriously don't expect any of it to be left by the time I need it to live on, I'd be far better drawing it all out in cash today and putting it in a box under the bed, at least it would still all be there when I'm 65.

Aye ... and I wouldn't need a very big box either.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:27 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

The "experts" who were looking after mine have given up and passed the buck to someone else

I seriously don't expect any of it to be left by the time I need it to live on, I'd be far better drawing it all out in cash today and putting it in a box under the bed, at least it would still all be there when I'm 65.

This.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:31 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

What percentage of public sector employees do you reckon are drawing £60k pa as a salary, let alone as a pension?

As usual, you're resorting to ill-informed hyperbole in an attempt to make your point, which does nothing but detract from whatever validity it may have had.

I was not concerned about percentages but in absolute numbers there's quite alot nationally.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:38 pm  

Dally wrote:

I was not concerned about percentages but in absolute numbers there's quite alot nationally.

Link?