Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:28 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Brown wanted to continue increasing spending even after the banking crisis, he was in complete denial...

It's called Keynesian economics.
It's also called stimulus.

Sal Paradise wrote:

In 2007 the tories were trying to get in a position to be elected, they are hardly going to alienate a big chunk of potential voters by showing their hand.

So they lied.
Right ... got it now, thanks.

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:45 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

It's called Keynesian economics.

It's called getting into more debt.

If things were that easy all governments would spend willy-nilly and we'd all be better off!

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:59 pm  

Dally wrote:

It's called getting into more debt.

If things were that easy all governments would spend willy-nilly and we'd all be better off!

Er, I'm not an economist, but I don't think the Keynesian approach is synonymous with 'spending willy nilly'. My understanding is that the spending is targeted towards projects that are of long term benefit and that will bring money into the economy by keeping people in work. If you don't agree with adopting this approach, fine, but to dismiss it as 'spending willy nilly' seems a little simplistic.

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:15 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Er, I'm not an economist, but I don't think the Keynesian approach is synonymous with 'spending willy nilly'. My understanding is that the spending is targeted towards projects that are of long term benefit and that will bring money into the economy by keeping people in work. If you don't agree with adopting this approach, fine, but to dismiss it as 'spending willy nilly' seems a little simplistic.

Those things are being done - there are some major capital projects on the go - eg the Olympics site - but that's hardly bailed us out.

In case it escapes you we are in the midst of a soveriegn debt crisis and so a traditional Keynesian solution is probably not an option (although I'm not an economist either. Having said that, I read have articles by many economists and most talk drivel and their predictions are invariably wrong!).

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:23 pm  

Dally wrote:

In case it escapes you we are in the midst of a soveriegn debt crisis and so a traditional Keynesian solution is probably not an option

In case it escapes you, I wasn't advocating any particular solution, merely taking issue with your description of Keynesian economics as 'spending willy nilly'.

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:28 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

In case it escapes you, I wasn't advocating any particular solution, merely taking issue with your description of Keynesian economics as 'spending willy nilly'.

and I was pointing out the current context. I firmly believe that if Mr K were still alive he would not be advocating the particular policy that everyone thinks he would. From what I gatherr he was a man of some intellect and vision and not a sheep who accepted conventional, broken wisdom.

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:35 pm  

Dally wrote:

and I was pointing out the current context.

Context is neither here nor there. I've not heard a single person, on here or anywhere else, say we should just 'spend willy nilly', or anything like it.

Dally wrote:

I firmly believe that if Mr K were still alive he would not be advocating the particular policy that everyone thinks he would.

And what policy does 'everyone' think he would advocate?

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:44 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

It's called Keynesian economics.
It's also called stimulus.

So they lied.
Right ... got it now, thanks.

No its not Keynesian economics - Keynes prescribed major infrastructure projects - roads/housing etc not frittering away borrowed money on inefficient quangos, public services and benefits.

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:45 pm  

Dally wrote:

... In case it escapes you we are in the midst of a soveriegn debt crisis and so a traditional Keynesian solution is probably not an option ...

The "traditional" Keynesian solution is specifically deficit spending as a way of keeping things moving, lifting confidence and priming the pump for recovery.
Add to that the fact that with bond yields at such a historic low, it's cheaper to spend now than any other time.

Osborne would argue that this spending would "crowd-out" spending by private industry in the same areas of spend.
Hence his limp call for private industry to embark on infrastructure projects... i.e. Trying to get the Keynesian result without the Keynesian method.
Won't work, they'll be wanting short-term paybacks.

Re: What now for the UK? : Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:04 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

not frittering away borrowed money on inefficient quangos, public services and benefits.

Did Labour propose increased spending on any of those areas at the last election? How much has the benefits bill decreased by so far? How much has borrowing decreased by so far?