[Mild Rover]

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:15 am  

Backwoodsman wrote:

The answer would be none of your life is eroded by multiculturalism, you are fine and dandy, best of luck to you. However you may like to check out things in Sheffield, various articles, the guardian, Sheffield star and bcc web site. All regarding fights, riots, feuds between Pakistani,Roma gyspsy and Somalia immigrants. Not certain some of your fellow countrymen are enamoured with the multiculturalism in that area.

There is a point to be discussed about inter-community tensions and even violence. However, what would be the terms of that of that discussion? When did the experiment in multiculturism in these islands begin? With the arrival of the Celtic or Roman or Germanic or Norman or Viking cultures? In terms of inter-community violence, would we include the 1190 massacre of the Jews in York? Violence between Protestants and Catholics from Tudor times onwards?

How would we define historical attempts to end the experiment? Such as the Edict of Expulsion in 1290, with Jews banned from England until well-known liberal snowflake Oliver Cromwell permitted their return in 1657. If we wanted and were able to end multiculturism in this country now, what would we have to remove to achieve cultural purity?

How do we define the multicultural experiments of British colonialism and modern countries such as the US and Australia? As cautionary tales of existing cultures being eroded or destroyed or as successful experiments that built strong democratic societies?

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:46 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

There is a point to be discussed about inter-community tensions and even violence. However, what would be the terms of that of that discussion? When did the experiment in multiculturism in these islands begin? With the arrival of the Celtic or Roman or Germanic or Norman or Viking cultures? In terms of inter-community violence, would we include the 1190 massacre of the Jews in York? Violence between Protestants and Catholics from Tudor times onwards?

How would we define historical attempts to end the experiment? Such as the Edict of Expulsion in 1290, with Jews banned from England until well-known liberal snowflake Oliver Cromwell permitted their return in 1657. If we wanted and were able to end multiculturism in this country now, what would we have to remove to achieve cultural purity?

How do we define the multicultural experiments of British colonialism and modern countries such as the US and Australia? As cautionary tales of existing cultures being eroded or destroyed or as successful experiments that built strong democratic societies?

I guess it would depend on the point you were trying to make

It's a pity that Boris hasn't yet had his inquest into racism within the Tory party though, it might have weeded out some of their racist party members, you know, the ones that tell people born in England to go "home" to Pakistan
And there are still some that deny that there is any kind of issue and that we already have robust laws and a tolerant society.

The country is run predominantly by white, middle aged, middle class men, as is the justice system and while there is absolutely no doubt that things, in genera, are improving, there is certainly plenty of work to be done.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:31 pm  

IR80 wrote:

Yup, Backwardsman, racist and xenophobe.

I presume you have taken the knee for your new masters.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:45 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I guess it would depend on the point you were trying to make

It's a pity that Boris hasn't yet had his inquest into racism within the Tory party though, it might have weeded out some of their racist party members, you know, the ones that tell people born in England to go "home" to Pakistan
And there are still some that deny that there is any kind of issue and that we already have robust laws and a tolerant society.

The country is run predominantly by white, middle aged, middle class men, as is the justice system and while there is absolutely no doubt that things, in genera, are improving, there is certainly plenty of work to be done.

Absolutely spot on with your reference to white middle aged middle class men. That’s the point I keep trying to make on this forum. The whole system is rigged against the lower end of the working population. The voting system Is rigged Probably one of the main reasons some of the working class areas in the north have voted Tory. Not certain how that will work out.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:40 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: Lets start with proper equal rights and equal treatment under the law, as it should be for EVERY citizen of the UK. However, you know this isn't going to happen any time soon. Our illustrious leader wouldn't know "equal" if it slapped each side of his many faces, at the same time, with equal force, so, how the hell are those at the bottom of the pile, regardless of race, creed or colour, going to receive EQUAL treatment. Your earlier attempt to gain a rise, regarding you "find me an advert which...…………." was far from successful. And, while we're at it, the self named "nasty" party, will be back to slashing the benefits of the disabled community, once we start to get through the Coronavirus pandemic. For me, it's all pretty simple, in that, we should all be treated equally and you know that we're damn well not. The Tory government charged a 3rd party company with slashing the benefits bill and driven by hefty bonuses, they were happy to leave those on disability payments with nothing. How anyone can EVER justify voting for the Tories is utterly beyond me. You may not have had or witnessed these things, I've no idea but, I have so, jog on. Jog on deary me. YOU brought up the gender pay gap, not me. As I said, it's a false equivalence to the issue of race equality and it's been shown many times that when you take EVERYTHING into account, the gender pay gap doesn't - in most cases - exist. You didn't answer the question - should Liz Bonnin be paid the same as David Attenborough? Because that's what you're advocating. You're right, posting a job advert based on gender would be illegal. But it seems posting an apprenticeship based on skin colour isn't. Blacks want 'equality', yes? So tell me, what challenges face a black lad on a council estate that a white lad doesn't face? Where is the institutional or rife societal racism racism that holds him back? I don't deny racism exists, but does racism remove all his opportunities? Is he denied education? Is he unable to apply for jobs? Is he unable to get out of bed and get on a bus and go to work? If you're saying the majority of the black community come from poorer backgrounds and therefore the challenges are hard - then the same applies to poor whites. The challenges are largely the same. In a community largely living in poverty, drugs, drink, casual criminality and violence are commonplace. Where peer pressure leads to the wrong path. Where it's not 'lit' to be studying hard and working in McDonalds for petty cash or to be working 9-5. Where your only suit is your weddings/funerals/court suit. Where a life of casual criminality is the norm, hence a much higher rate of police interaction and the possibility of a criminal record. Those are the main factors denying someone career opportunities and a good job, not racism. So let's ignore the fact BLM want to dismantle the state, the police, the family unit, capitalism and 'patricarchy' (everyone else ignores these things), and let's ignore the fact that in reality the idea that blacks are being slaughtered by the police in the UK is preposterous - what can actually change to make things better for poorer black communities? What do they want? It's easy to sing about 'equality' or 'justice' - what does this mean? Tell me, because I genuinely do not know. You want less harassment from the police? Don't carry knives or stab people. Don't deal or do drugs. Don't engage in casual criminality. You want a good education? Knuckle down and study and ignore that deadhead mate taking the pss. You want a good job? Work your way up and be better than the people around you, and develop yourself. That's how people 'get on' in life. In the US about 53% of all murders and 54% of all robbery are committed by black men aged 15-40. That's about 3.5% of the population, hence why young black men interact with the police at far higher rates. I don't know what the comparison is here but it seems to me that certain parts of the BLM 'movement' want to live outside the law without any of the consequences. And they want, erm, 'stuff' handed to them. Probably. Have you taken a knee yet?

wrencat1873 wrote: Lets start with proper equal rights and equal treatment under the law, as it should be for EVERY citizen of the UK. However, you know this isn't going to happen any time soon. Our illustrious leader wouldn't know "equal" if it slapped each side of his many faces, at the same time, with equal force, so, how the hell are those at the bottom of the pile, regardless of race, creed or colour, going to receive EQUAL treatment. Your earlier attempt to gain a rise, regarding you "find me an advert which...…………." was far from successful. And, while we're at it, the self named "nasty" party, will be back to slashing the benefits of the disabled community, once we start to get through the Coronavirus pandemic. For me, it's all pretty simple, in that, we should all be treated equally and you know that we're damn well not. The Tory government charged a 3rd party company with slashing the benefits bill and driven by hefty bonuses, they were happy to leave those on disability payments with nothing. How anyone can EVER justify voting for the Tories is utterly beyond me. You may not have had or witnessed these things, I've no idea but, I have so, jog on. Jog on deary me. YOU brought up the gender pay gap, not me. As I said, it's a false equivalence to the issue of race equality and it's been shown many times that when you take EVERYTHING into account, the gender pay gap doesn't - in most cases - exist. You didn't answer the question - should Liz Bonnin be paid the same as David Attenborough? Because that's what you're advocating. You're right, posting a job advert based on gender would be illegal. But it seems posting an apprenticeship based on skin colour isn't. Blacks want 'equality', yes? So tell me, what challenges face a black lad on a council estate that a white lad doesn't face? Where is the institutional or rife societal racism racism that holds him back? I don't deny racism exists, but does racism remove all his opportunities? Is he denied education? Is he unable to apply for jobs? Is he unable to get out of bed and get on a bus and go to work? If you're saying the majority of the black community come from poorer backgrounds and therefore the challenges are hard - then the same applies to poor whites. The challenges are largely the same. In a community largely living in poverty, drugs, drink, casual criminality and violence are commonplace. Where peer pressure leads to the wrong path. Where it's not 'lit' to be studying hard and working in McDonalds for petty cash or to be working 9-5. Where your only suit is your weddings/funerals/court suit. Where a life of casual criminality is the norm, hence a much higher rate of police interaction and the possibility of a criminal record. Those are the main factors denying someone career opportunities and a good job, not racism. So let's ignore the fact BLM want to dismantle the state, the police, the family unit, capitalism and 'patricarchy' (everyone else ignores these things), and let's ignore the fact that in reality the idea that blacks are being slaughtered by the police in the UK is preposterous - what can actually change to make things better for poorer black communities? What do they want? It's easy to sing about 'equality' or 'justice' - what does this mean? Tell me, because I genuinely do not know. You want less harassment from the police? Don't carry knives or stab people. Don't deal or do drugs. Don't engage in casual criminality. You want a good education? Knuckle down and study and ignore that deadhead mate taking the pss. You want a good job? Work your way up and be better than the people around you, and develop yourself. That's how people 'get on' in life. In the US about 53% of all murders and 54% of all robbery are committed by black men aged 15-40. That's about 3.5% of the population, hence why young black men interact with the police at far higher rates. I don't know what the comparison is here but it seems to me that certain parts of the BLM 'movement' want to live outside the law without any of the consequences. And they want, erm, 'stuff' handed to them. Probably. Have you taken a knee yet?

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:49 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

I presume you have taken the knee for your new masters.

No need to, I just feel sorry for the idiots like you, typing with sore knuckles must be a challenge, good job you have your Sister around to "wipe up the dribbles"...

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:56 pm  

Cronus wrote: Jog on deary me. YOU brought up the gender pay gap, not me. As I said, it's a false equivalence to the issue of race equality and it's been shown many times that when you take EVERYTHING into account, the gender pay gap doesn't - in most cases - exist. You didn't answer the question - should Liz Bonnin be paid the same as David Attenborough? Because that's what you're advocating. You're right, posting a job advert based on gender would be illegal. But it seems posting an apprenticeship based on skin colour isn't. Blacks want 'equality', yes? So tell me, what challenges face a black lad on a council estate that a white lad doesn't face? Where is the institutional or rife societal racism racism that holds him back? I don't deny racism exists, but does racism remove all his opportunities? Is he denied education? Is he unable to apply for jobs? Is he unable to get out of bed and get on a bus and go to work? If you're saying the majority of the black community come from poorer backgrounds and therefore the challenges are hard - then the same applies to poor whites. The challenges are largely the same. In a community largely living in poverty, drugs, drink, casual criminality and violence are commonplace. Where peer pressure leads to the wrong path. Where it's not 'lit' to be studying hard and working in McDonalds for petty cash or to be working 9-5. Where your only suit is your weddings/funerals/court suit. Where a life of casual criminality is the norm, hence a much higher rate of police interaction and the possibility of a criminal record. Those are the main factors denying someone career opportunities and a good job, not racism. So let's ignore the fact BLM want to dismantle the state, the police, the family unit, capitalism and 'patricarchy' (everyone else ignores these things), and let's ignore the fact that in reality the idea that blacks are being slaughtered by the police in the UK is preposterous - what can actually change to make things better for poorer black communities? What do they want? It's easy to sing about 'equality' or 'justice' - what does this mean? Tell me, because I genuinely do not know. You want less harassment from the police? Don't carry knives or stab people. Don't deal or do drugs. Don't engage in casual criminality. You want a good education? Knuckle down and study and ignore that deadhead mate taking the pss. You want a good job? Work your way up and be better than the people around you, and develop yourself. That's how people 'get on' in life. In the US about 53% of all murders and 54% of all robbery are committed by black men aged 15-40. That's about 3.5% of the population, hence why young black men interact with the police at far higher rates. I don't know what the comparison is here but it seems to me that certain parts of the BLM 'movement' want to live outside the law without any of the consequences. And they want, erm, 'stuff' handed to them. Probably. Have you taken a knee yet? Do you mean "taken a knee" like Domonic Raab, another really well informed Tory cabinet Minister. The rest of your post could be taken from the Daily Mail archive. The same editorial that was calling our NHS staff lazy and anyone on benefits, scroungers. Let's start with EVERYONE being equal in the eyes of the law and then try and move on from there. Racism, unfortunately is ingrained accross society and given our country's history, how could it be anything else. Yes, it's improving but, there is a long, long way to go. As for racism denying ALL opportunities, of course it doesn't. However, just as with the example that I threw in about gender equality, it means that some minority groups have to work a damn sight harder and be a damn sight more determined to make it but, you know this.

Cronus wrote: Jog on deary me. YOU brought up the gender pay gap, not me. As I said, it's a false equivalence to the issue of race equality and it's been shown many times that when you take EVERYTHING into account, the gender pay gap doesn't - in most cases - exist. You didn't answer the question - should Liz Bonnin be paid the same as David Attenborough? Because that's what you're advocating. You're right, posting a job advert based on gender would be illegal. But it seems posting an apprenticeship based on skin colour isn't. Blacks want 'equality', yes? So tell me, what challenges face a black lad on a council estate that a white lad doesn't face? Where is the institutional or rife societal racism racism that holds him back? I don't deny racism exists, but does racism remove all his opportunities? Is he denied education? Is he unable to apply for jobs? Is he unable to get out of bed and get on a bus and go to work? If you're saying the majority of the black community come from poorer backgrounds and therefore the challenges are hard - then the same applies to poor whites. The challenges are largely the same. In a community largely living in poverty, drugs, drink, casual criminality and violence are commonplace. Where peer pressure leads to the wrong path. Where it's not 'lit' to be studying hard and working in McDonalds for petty cash or to be working 9-5. Where your only suit is your weddings/funerals/court suit. Where a life of casual criminality is the norm, hence a much higher rate of police interaction and the possibility of a criminal record. Those are the main factors denying someone career opportunities and a good job, not racism. So let's ignore the fact BLM want to dismantle the state, the police, the family unit, capitalism and 'patricarchy' (everyone else ignores these things), and let's ignore the fact that in reality the idea that blacks are being slaughtered by the police in the UK is preposterous - what can actually change to make things better for poorer black communities? What do they want? It's easy to sing about 'equality' or 'justice' - what does this mean? Tell me, because I genuinely do not know. You want less harassment from the police? Don't carry knives or stab people. Don't deal or do drugs. Don't engage in casual criminality. You want a good education? Knuckle down and study and ignore that deadhead mate taking the pss. You want a good job? Work your way up and be better than the people around you, and develop yourself. That's how people 'get on' in life. In the US about 53% of all murders and 54% of all robbery are committed by black men aged 15-40. That's about 3.5% of the population, hence why young black men interact with the police at far higher rates. I don't know what the comparison is here but it seems to me that certain parts of the BLM 'movement' want to live outside the law without any of the consequences. And they want, erm, 'stuff' handed to them. Probably. Have you taken a knee yet? Do you mean "taken a knee" like Domonic Raab, another really well informed Tory cabinet Minister. The rest of your post could be taken from the Daily Mail archive. The same editorial that was calling our NHS staff lazy and anyone on benefits, scroungers. Let's start with EVERYONE being equal in the eyes of the law and then try and move on from there. Racism, unfortunately is ingrained accross society and given our country's history, how could it be anything else. Yes, it's improving but, there is a long, long way to go. As for racism denying ALL opportunities, of course it doesn't. However, just as with the example that I threw in about gender equality, it means that some minority groups have to work a damn sight harder and be a damn sight more determined to make it but, you know this.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:08 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

There is a point to be discussed about inter-community tensions and even violence. However, what would be the terms of that of that discussion? When did the experiment in multiculturism in these islands begin? With the arrival of the Celtic or Roman or Germanic or Norman or Viking cultures? In terms of inter-community violence, would we include the 1190 massacre of the Jews in York? Violence between Protestants and Catholics from Tudor times onwards?

How would we define historical attempts to end the experiment? Such as the Edict of Expulsion in 1290, with Jews banned from England until well-known liberal snowflake Oliver Cromwell permitted their return in 1657. If we wanted and were able to end multiculturism in this country now, what would we have to remove to achieve cultural purity?

How do we define the multicultural experiments of British colonialism and modern countries such as the US and Australia? As cautionary tales of existing cultures being eroded or destroyed or as successful experiments that built strong democratic societies?

Very interesting, however the population in England round about that time was tiny compared with today’s population. Migration into the uk in the last 15 years is measured in the millions. Latest reports think at least a million illegal migrants (not registered)are in the country. I don’t suppose they are all working in charity shops

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:18 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Do you mean "taken a knee" like Domonic Raab, another really well informed Tory cabinet Minister.

The rest of your post could be taken from the Daily Mail archive.
The same editorial that was calling our NHS staff lazy and anyone on benefits, scroungers.

Let's start with EVERYONE being equal in the eyes of the law and then try and move on from there.
Racism, unfortunately is ingrained accross society and given our country's history, how could it be anything else.

Yes, it's improving but, there is a long, long way to go.

As for racism denying ALL opportunities, of course it doesn't.
However, just as with the example that I threw in about gender equality, it means that some minority groups have to work a damn sight harder and be a damn sight more determined to make it but, you know this.

So, no answers. Nothing. More rhetoric, no answers. You're all clamouring for 'equality', 'justice' etc - but what does it look like? Third time of asking.

You call it a Mail editorial, I wouldn't know. But show me anything inaccurate in my post. Anything. Typical of the left, belittle and dismiss the inconvenient truth if it doesn't support the victim narrative.

Tell me, who exactly is unequal in the eyes of the law?

And yes, take a knee just like Dominic Raab, the first person in authority to show a pair of cojones, unlike Labour who capitulated at the first opportunity. You might be surprised to know the majority haven't taken a knee and have no intention of doing. You probably assume that means everyone is racist, and that's part of the problem.

Race relations in the UK have regressed 30 years in the last month. There's far more division now than in decades.

Anyway, another question you didn't answer - have you taken a knee?

[Durham Giant]

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:21 pm  

Cronus wrote:

Jog on deary me.

YOU brought up the gender pay gap, not me. As I said, it's a false equivalence to the issue of race equality and it's been shown many times that when you take EVERYTHING into account, the gender pay gap doesn't - in most cases - exist. You didn't answer the question - should Liz Bonnin be paid the same as David Attenborough? Because that's what you're advocating.




Have you taken a knee yet? Snip

I won’t bother going into all your posts as you never seem to respond to any facts. You quote Attenborough and Bonin. Im not sure anyone advocated them being paid the same. But I can safely say that Lineker £1.75 m is not worth 10 x Clare Balding £175 k. Nor is Jeremy. BOwen or Jon Sopel whom I like both off , worth x2 of Carrie Gracie who I also like. That was a gender pay gap which was working for decades.