[DaveO]

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:50 am  

Dally wrote:

Why can MPs who represent the whole of the electorate manage on much lower salaries and still get criticised?

Presumably because like anyone else, such as nurses, social workers, doctors they are open to criticism as we all are in our jobs. What their salaries has to do with this I have no idea. Should those nurses be immune from criticism because they earn less than an MP?

These union leaders often take from the poorly paid to fund their fat cat life-styles. If they have conviction and members interests at heart they should not be accepting or demanding such pay. As you say, hypocrisy of the very worst kind.

Given Union membership is voluntary has it crossed your mind that the members are happy to pay their subs knowing the people who run the organisation are well paid?

They don't "take" anything. Union membership is voluntary so therefore so are the subs the members pay. Anyone disagreeing with the pay the leadership receives can simply leave the Union.

If they don't they must believe the benefits of membership are worth the subs regardless of what salaries the union officials are paid.

The union leaders are also elected so just like MP's said they can be replaced if required so anyone who feels they aren't getting value for money can do something about it.

Anyone who takes whatever benefits the Unions secure for them yet then moans about the salaries paid to the officials would be the hypocrite.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:30 am  

DaveO wrote:

Presumably because like anyone else, such as nurses, social workers, doctors they are open to criticism as we all are in our jobs. What their salaries has to do with this I have no idea. Should those nurses be immune from criticism because they earn less than an MP?

Given Union membership is voluntary has it crossed your mind that the members are happy to pay their subs knowing the people who run the organisation are well paid?

They don't "take" anything. Union membership is voluntary so therefore so are the subs the members pay. Anyone disagreeing with the pay the leadership receives can simply leave the Union.

If they don't they must believe the benefits of membership are worth the subs regardless of what salaries the union officials are paid.

The union leaders are also elected so just like MP's said they can be replaced if required so anyone who feels they aren't getting value for money can do something about it.

Anyone who takes whatever benefits the Unions secure for them yet then moans about the salaries paid to the officials would be the hypocrite.

But why do people who preach equality feel it necessary to have large salaries? Do they work harder for "their" members because they earn £120,000 than if they earned, say, £40,000? If so, why?

[DaveO]

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:55 am  

Dally wrote:

But why do people who preach equality feel it necessary to have large salaries? Do they work harder for "their" members because they earn £120,000 than if they earned, say, £40,000? If so, why?

I wasn't aware they preach equality as such. More fairness as in a fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

I don't work any harder these days despite my salary being considerably larger than it was 10 years ago but I assume I am paid it because my experience and skills are considered worth it.

Presumably union officials who earn these salaries are also considered worth the money.

All you are doing here is recycling the bankrupt argument that if you are of a left wing view you ought to work for free.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:40 pm  

BobbyD wrote: I'm not the only one it seems. The Guardian, BBC , ONS among others all say 2.39m, So where is this other 230,000? After some digging, it appears the quoted figure was from an article dated November 2011, so please accept my apologies. Still doesn't alter the fact that this bunch of sociopaths managed to preside over the highest level of unemployment since the last time they were in charge of the nation

BobbyD wrote: I'm not the only one it seems. The Guardian, BBC , ONS among others all say 2.39m, So where is this other 230,000? After some digging, it appears the quoted figure was from an article dated November 2011, so please accept my apologies. Still doesn't alter the fact that this bunch of sociopaths managed to preside over the highest level of unemployment since the last time they were in charge of the nation

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:56 am  

DaveO wrote:

I wasn't aware they preach equality as such. More fairness as in a fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

I don't work any harder these days despite my salary being considerably larger than it was 10 years ago but I assume I am paid it because my experience and skills are considered worth it.

Presumably union officials who earn these salaries are also considered worth the money.

All you are doing here is recycling the bankrupt argument that if you are of a left wing view you ought to work for free.

Nobody worse than the union leaders for pointing out how jobs could be saved if the bosses earned less - if we take your analogy then the experience and skills of the bosses and considered worth it? I bet if you asked McClusky to justify his salary and benefits he would point out his skills and experience.

Questioning the salary of bosses when you are the highest earner with the most benefits in the organisation is a touch hypocritical would you not agree?

No one is suggesting left wingers should not earn high salaries - just that they don't spout equality and a better spread of wealth from such a lofty position.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:02 am  

DaveO wrote:

Presumably because like anyone else, such as nurses, social workers, doctors they are open to criticism as we all are in our jobs. What their salaries has to do with this I have no idea. Should those nurses be immune from criticism because they earn less than an MP?

Given Union membership is voluntary has it crossed your mind that the members are happy to pay their subs knowing the people who run the organisation are well paid?

They don't "take" anything. Union membership is voluntary so therefore so are the subs the members pay. Anyone disagreeing with the pay the leadership receives can simply leave the Union.

If they don't they must believe the benefits of membership are worth the subs regardless of what salaries the union officials are paid.

The union leaders are also elected so just like MP's said they can be replaced if required so anyone who feels they aren't getting value for money can do something about it.

Anyone who takes whatever benefits the Unions secure for them yet then moans about the salaries paid to the officials would be the hypocrite.

What about those who have lost their jobs/conditions due to the intervention of the union? Have they not got a right to question the value for money the are getting from some high paid officials?

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:20 am  

Animal Farm springs to mind

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:29 am  

DaveO wrote: I wasn't aware they preach equality as such. More fairness as in a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. Now that did raise a post Christmas smile! Something along the lines of "We are all equal, just some are more equal than others", eh? And what was that famous ditty......"The working class can kiss my booty. I've got the Foreman's job at last!" Anyhows, some excellent points in Ms Platell's column which should give the Church of England some food for thought as this year draws to a close.

DaveO wrote: I wasn't aware they preach equality as such. More fairness as in a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. Now that did raise a post Christmas smile! Something along the lines of "We are all equal, just some are more equal than others", eh? And what was that famous ditty......"The working class can kiss my booty. I've got the Foreman's job at last!" Anyhows, some excellent points in Ms Platell's column which should give the Church of England some food for thought as this year draws to a close.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:44 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote: Anyhows, some excellent points in Ms Platell's column which should give the Church of England some food for thought as this year draws to a close. ...because thats what is at the source of all poverty isn't it, people who would have enough money if only they didn't spend it all on christmas presents.

rumpelstiltskin wrote: Anyhows, some excellent points in Ms Platell's column which should give the Church of England some food for thought as this year draws to a close. ...because thats what is at the source of all poverty isn't it, people who would have enough money if only they didn't spend it all on christmas presents.

Re: No More Arguments: Austerity is Working! : Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:48 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

... No one is suggesting left wingers should not earn high salaries - just that they don't spout equality and a better spread of wealth from such a lofty position.

So doubtless you can now set down the cut-off pay rate at which someone should stop empathising with the wider workforce and daring to even think about a fairer society.

At the same time, you can also provide the evidence – which you have singularly failed to do previously – that society as a whole is not better off in social terms when the income gap is lower.*


* To clarify: that was lower – not non-existent.