Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 9:39 am  

Labour have a big problem - they are so out of touch with everyone except the lefty elite in London and some university dominated towns/cities. Over time the young vote they thought was in the bag will flow away to the likes of the Greens and the SDP as we see all over Europe.

People are sick of Labour telling them how bad the country is - we see it on here all the time, especially when Brexit was higher profile. At least Boris tries to big up the country. Yesterday sending the gun boats into Jersey was a masterstroke of timing - what do you think Labour's response would have been? The Tories believe in the UK - Labour don't.

Boris wants to stop kids having to wear masks in school from May 17 - a very good move all round - guess who thinks its a bad idea? 12% pay increase for the NHS - its ludicrous.

Now we have agreed that carry big long term debt is acceptable we can have a slow gradual repayment plan so austerity should no longer be an issue to the extent it was under Osborne and the economy will grow rapidly in the next two years it will be difficult for Labour to make a dent - in fact it could be even worse at the next GE.

What Hartlepool shows is the tittle-tattle of Westminster doesn't register with them - even at a local level it seems Labour are losing council hand over fist. What are Labour's key policies - they need to lay them out and hammer them home for the next 3 years - otherwise you could see Labour becoming a fringe party of Marxists like Corbyn, McDonald, Russel-Mole, Burgen and the bonkers woman in the North East

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 9:43 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Labour have a big problem - they are so out of touch with everyone except the lefty elite in London and some university dominated towns/cities. Over time the young vote they thought was in the bag will flow away to the likes of the Greens and the SDP as we see all over Europe.

People are sick of Labour telling them how bad the country is - we see it on here all the time, especially when Brexit was higher profile. At least Boris tries to big up the country. Yesterday sending the gun boats into Jersey was a masterstroke of timing - what do you think Labour's response would have been? The Tories believe in the UK - Labour don't.

Boris wants to stop kids having to wear masks in school from May 17 - a very good move all round - guess who thinks its a bad idea? 12% pay increase for the NHS - its ludicrous.

Now we have agreed that carry big long term debt is acceptable we can have a slow gradual repayment plan so austerity should no longer be an issue to the extent it was under Osborne and the economy will grow rapidly in the next two years it will be difficult for Labour to make a dent - in fact it could be even worse at the next GE.

What Hartlepool shows is the tittle-tattle of Westminster doesn't register with them - even at a local level it seems Labour are losing council hand over fist. What are Labour's key policies - they need to lay them out and hammer them home for the next 3 years - otherwise you could see Labour becoming a fringe party of Marxists like Corbyn, McDonald, Russel-Mole, Burgen and the bonkers woman in the North East

No he doesn’t and no they don’t.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 10:07 am  

Let’s also not forget the fact that Boris first and foremost is a homophobic racist. People keep voting for a party led by a “man” like that, and they say the UK isn’t institutionally racist.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 10:25 am  

Willzay wrote:

Imagine voting for a party who’d rather spend money on a poxy flat than feed hungry children, and whose leader openly said he’d let the bodies pile high, which he did. I hope Hartlepool gets whats coming to them in spades - more austerity.

Yeh let's see if we can get Arthur Scargill out of retirement and in government ,the only way you old socialists will be happy ,worked well last time didn't it mind you it will be hard to entice him out of his plush canary wharf pad
Just face it the average joe does not give a flying fook about wall paper or the like ,they wanted results and believe it or not some of us are patriotic without being racist

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 10:29 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You make my point perfectly: Brexit itself is peak culture war, that's the point. It's not about economics or making people's lives better, even the people voting leave don't think that's the case. It's about winning.

Of course it's about economics try telling that to the various trades whose day rates had been undercut,making their income a fair bit less ,london labour rates in general are down to the mid 90s levels

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 10:34 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

At least Boris tries to big up the country. Yesterday sending the gun boats into Jersey was a masterstroke of timing - what do you think Labour's response would have been? The Tories believe in the UK - Labour don't.

I mean just take a look at this post to see how far beyond some voters are - and this identifies the scale of Labour's problem. Although of course ZZB would never vote Labour in a million years.

Tory PM uses the military as a blatant political tool, a prop for his party. Your reaction isn't "my God, how has it come to this". It's "great politics, those wimps in Labour wouldn't be so brazen". It's all about your side winning and it's still shocking and still depressing.

Then your last sentence here is just regurgitating the never-ending lie that Tories like you somehow are more patriotic or more British than other people. That's probably the most insidious and disgusting thing of the lot, but you genuinely believe it. And I'll never stop despising people like you for it, especially as you accuse other people of dividing the country.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 10:36 am  

JONNYGIANT wrote:

Plus your assumption that the old working class bedrock of support has gone is just wrong ,all the fa Tories, workshops and building sites are full of disgruntled labour voters who saw the last labour cabinet for what it was ,nobody who I spoke to who had been life long labour voted for them ,the vast majority voted Tory with a few that couldn't face the thought voted brexit party

But there are many fewer people working in factories and workshops than 40 or 50 years ago. See also in mines or on docks. And many of those that do see themselves differently to how their parents and grandparents saw themselves. Which is natural, times change. They’re still important but they’re not the basis of a mass political movement now - just one of several demographic groups. If you go all out to win them over you risk other elements in your voter coalition.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 10:45 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I mean just take a look at this post to see how far beyond some voters are - and this identifies the scale of Labour's problem. Although of course ZZB would never vote Labour in a million years.

Tory PM uses the military as a blatant political tool, a prop for his party. Your reaction isn't "my God, how has it come to this". It's "great politics, those wimps in Labour wouldn't be so brazen". It's all about your side winning and it's still shocking and still depressing.

Then your last sentence here is just regurgitating the never-ending lie that Tories like you somehow are more patriotic or more British than other people. That's probably the most insidious and disgusting thing of the lot, but you genuinely believe it. And I'll never stop despising people like you for it, especially as you accuse other people of dividing the country.

I think Johnson is the political equivalent a jolly fat bloke selling us a doughnut for our lunch, while Labour is a thin lass with a thin smile and a pitying look in her eye offering us a chicken salad. Life is hard and a lot of people think ‘stuff it, let’s have a treat’, and worry about the weight gain, blood pressure and pre-diabetes later.

Even if we point out that the jolly fat bloke keeps the change without asking, that’s ‘just Boris’ and y’know... doughnuts!

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 10:56 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I mean just take a look at this post to see how far beyond some voters are - and this identifies the scale of Labour's problem. Although of course ZZB would never vote Labour in a million years.

Tory PM uses the military as a blatant political tool, a prop for his party. Your reaction isn't "my God, how has it come to this". It's "great politics, those wimps in Labour wouldn't be so brazen". It's all about your side winning and it's still shocking and still depressing.

Then your last sentence here is just regurgitating the never-ending lie that Tories like you somehow are more patriotic or more British than other people. That's probably the most insidious and disgusting thing of the lot, but you genuinely believe it. And I'll never stop despising people like you for it, especially as you accuse other people of dividing the country.

Grow up - where did I ever say that I am more patriotic than you - stop making stuff up. When was the last a Labour MP said what a great country this is? I had this argument with you all through the Brexit stuff - your view was we are not able to survive outside of the EU - this is a great country filled with very clever/innovative people like James Dyson people who can transform the mundane. Being in Europe would certainly have made trade easier in the short term I agree with you on that but we will find a way to prosper because that is the country we are.

I am not Labour's problem - I would never vote Labour their values and mine are not aligned. What Boris did is nothing compared to what Blair did in Iraq!! It demonstrates a willingness to show we want be pushed around - I know you believed the EU was a Saintly organisation but most normal people don't see it the way you do.

You think like Labour do - "these people are idiots - why can't they see what in front of them" - it is that arrogance that might work with a few in Islington but doesn't cut it with the vast majority. Your problem is you are incapable of seeing any other stance than you rigid set of opinions and like Labour you either adapt or no one takes any notice.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 07, 2021 10:58 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You make my point perfectly: Brexit itself is peak culture war, that's the point. It's not about economics or making people's lives better, even the people voting leave don't think that's the case. It's about winning.

Of course it's about economics try telling that to the various trades whose day rates had been undercut,making their income a fair bit less ,london labour rates in general are down to the mid 90s levels